#61 [url]

May 8 17 10:27 AM

Looks like Kay Brown is watching you watching her.. which is kinda funny..

Though she did also post this: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe which also is a nice way of looking at things, going back to the 'defence mechanism' idea.
I mean, if a part of you, for whatever reason, religion, parenting, or simple embarrassment, fundamentally rejects the very idea that you might be trans, or it just wasn't even a concept that you were even aware of, I can see that as the basis for your carefully constructing your self-identity omitting that one vital piece of information, until one day the nagging cognitive dissonance you experience with your body and in every social interaction grows too great, and you reach a point where you can no longer ignore it, which might well take until you are 30ish, and that is what presents as so-called 'late onset', at least to the clinicians.

Then you go back and try to reconstruct a narrative of your existence and experiences including that piece of information you had previously omitted, and find that it all makes so much more sense to you what was actually going on at the time, but you then get accused by the clinicians and the separatists of engaging in rationalisation in the opposite direction. Instead of coming up with true information to support your new-found and sincerely believed 'born this way' case, you are accused of spinning a false and flawed self-narrative to support your late developing but overpowering sexual perversion.
"Nobody calls me a queer/tranny" rather quickly becomes "Nobody calls me a sexual fetishist, I'm a 'true' trans* woman dammit", unlike those other 'freaks'. 
It's the same kind of narcisism that leads you down one path as leads you down the other, and from the point of view of the straight men it's like, 'You're all just freakish trannies to me, get over yourselves', unless you are lucky enough to look like Kim Petras, and even then.. 
So it's still pretty horrible for us out there whatever you look like, and however young you start, even if you avoid male puberty entirely..

I dunno, I do know what I was doing when I was 4 5 and 6 it's just that at the time I didn't think it was that wrong or unusual, just that maybe other people seemed to have a problem with me, and that problem only seemed to grow greater as I got older, until I realised at about 14 what some of what the problem was, and took step to minimise my outward expression I guess, until that kind of thing subsumed my original awareness and I just identified, if I identified as anything, as 'geek', expecting to just grow out of it one day, until I got fed up with being so emotionally dissociated and stuck in a rut like that indefinitely, and went looking for some better, more accurate answers, starting when I was about 27. Why do I keep getting so cripplingly depressed ever few years? Why does life seem so pointless? Why can't I ever seem to concentrate and succeed at any long-term goals? Why do people still seem to single me out and make fun of me if I try to get involved in any more macho activities? What the hell are other people seeing that I'm not? and so on.

Which leaves me very confused and still rather split internally, and feeling like I wish I'd been allowed to be more like Kay Brown and to transition at 17, when I would surely have done it oh-so gladly, (I mean considering how nutty I was getting back then, I'd have probably had a pretty good case), had I thought that my parents wouldn't disown me, had I not been stuck in a single-sex school doing my oh-so 'vital' A Levels, and had I not been scared of what my remaining grandparents, aunts and cousins etc. would have thought. instead of waiting till my mid thirties, when people like her seem to want to hate me and exclude me even more for doing so.

Last Edited By: Xora May 8 17 10:52 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#63 [url]

May 8 17 11:38 AM

Xora, I don't think Kay is watching anybody in particular. I approached Kay about a piece for my film, I mentioned this forum, Kay is aware of the forum and probably thought to check it out and saw the thread, saw that people were slanderous and decided to post about it on Facebook. I commented on it, I speak as I find. 🙂

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#64 [url]

May 8 17 12:19 PM

I agree with April - this was a great post Xora. Also, I read the comments from Kay and RC. Slander is such a harsh word... how about "strong disagreement." If we all just started approaching our critics with less venom and more reasoned discussion we'd all cut out a great deal of stress.

RC - the reason I do not want to be interviewed by you for your documentary is because of my suspicion over your motives. You can take anything I say and editorially change the context to make me sound stupid thus showing support for your thesis (whatever that is). I am having a hard time trying to understand why you and Kay choose to believe that AGP in any way describes gender identity (see my previous post on gate-keepers) . I do know that the theory has contributed to a lot of pain that society and policy-makers are only now starting to rectify. Whether it describes a small number of patients is really irrelevant - the theory throws gasoline on a political fire that has well enough frightened and mis-informed people taking part. Conservatives and religious types do not need this half-baked theory to make bad decisions around Transgender Rights or Health policy - but because they have this theory and it is supported by emanate scientists - it becomes one more source of pain.
If you really want to help Transgender people then just stop talking about AGP. Focus on other topics for Trans culture - there are a lot. How about a film about Chechnya? Look at how the Trans of Chechnya are treated. I saw this wonderful film last week by Finnish director Reetta Aalto called Grey Violet - Odd One Out


Great lady BTW - her uncle was Trans. I had a chance to talk with her after the showing and her dedication to the topic was inspiring.

Point is that this obsession over AGP is not healthy and there are so many other topics that I am sure you will find compelling.

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#65 [url]

May 8 17 2:58 PM

"......I know some who have fallen for this BS because of experience with gate-keepers and peers. It is so easy to fall for this BS if you need something from the CAMH here in Toronto."

Bobbi, very good point, although I believe that this was far more of an issue a generation ago. I believe Jack calls what you describe here as the "Harry Benjamin Syndrome". A few decades ago, there was a bible of sorts for getting through the gate keepers which we know as the "Benjamin Standards", which was really a testimony in support of the gender binary 1950s style. Add on top of that any personal prejudices that therapists had about the gender with which you identified, and you had the bar you needed to get over to get HRT and SRS. If you had the right narrative, or could at least convincingly manufacture it, you could get into the exclusive girls club. Fortunately, much of the gate keeping community has since ran far away from all that. But some of those trans who bought into the old way are rather upset that they let anybody play in their sandbox these days.

Last Edited By: April May 8 17 4:58 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#66 [url]

May 8 17 3:01 PM

Bobbi, I agree less venom is needed for any decent talks. I also think there is nothing wrong with being AGP or talking about it. I understand people come up against difficult situations, I think it can be a motive to transition. I understand why you declined an interview, that's cool by me and all I can say is there will be no re-editing of any words or written material involved, it's all as it was recorded. As an example, Cheryl asked me not to use a particular piece, I loved it and would still love to use it but I gave my word I wouldn't and I won't. Thank you for the link I'll check it out!

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#67 [url]

May 8 17 11:50 PM

Kay Brown feels slandered? Oh my...

This is the transsexual woman who argues that 99 percent of all trans women are sexually perverted straight men who should not be let into the same part of the health care system as "homosexual transsexuals" (as she for some utterly bizarre reason calls herself). And she is insulted?

I think she is a living argument for why the AGP theory causes so much suffering and invalidation in the transgender community. She has assimilated the transphobic mental map that underpins the AGP narrative, and now desperately tries to define a room with some dignity for herself, while throwing the rest of us under the bus.

Now that is what I call a defense mechanism ;)

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#70 [url]

May 10 17 1:03 AM

Jack, what's bizarre about calling yourself a homosexual transsexual?

Rubbercripple. I would kindly ask you to stop this nonsense right now, before I am forced to ban you.

You know perfectly well why it is wrong to call a transgender woman who is attracted to men a "homosexual transsexual". A woman who loves men is heterosexual. By calling her homosexual you are in effect calling her a man, which is invalidating, offensive and extremely cruel.

We have told you so over and over again, and if you haven't gotten that message by now, that must either be because you you find it hard to understand simple arguments, or that you are deliberately trying to provoke me and others by actively insulting us. I do not think you are that stupid, so I have to conclude that you are trolling. That is unacceptable. 

What we are doing here is not an intellectual game. For many this topic is about life and death, so I suggest you treat it with  respect.

Last Edited By: jackmolay May 10 17 4:13 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#72 [url]

May 13 17 1:01 AM

Sorry Rubber

Sorry, I was just enjoying the name 'muddled-cripple' it was the other side of the argument I found confusing. But anyway, it's all inspired me to write a blog post.. will post soon

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#73 [url]

May 13 17 1:35 AM

Rubber - you need to get this all out of your system..,.,

Rubber, why don't you just say what you want to say and get it out of your system?

This is not the first time that people have dropped provocative lines like 'what's wrong with saying homosexual transsexual'? Jack and I - and all of us - have experienced it before. In fact, we've fought online wars with persistent trolls who were so dedicated to autogynephilia that they'd actively look for trans-blogs and start trolling them with their fetish theories.

In other words, we're big boys and girls...so it's not necessary you drop in provocative one liners. Just spit it out! Tell us what you really want to say. And while you're at it...tell us what is your motive for being in this forum and what's the motive of your film. Stop being a pussy and be straight with us!


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#74 [url]

May 13 17 2:42 AM

Oh stop it Felix. There's nothing to get out of my system. I came across this forum via Andy Gras who screened a film of mine at the transgender film festival in London. I'm trying to make a zero budget film on Autogynephilia, I was hoping to get some opinions for the film but only you and Jack have helped. There is no other motive for my film I'm not looking to put anyone in a bad light, I would genuinely love to get Crossdreamers in on the film, I want people to say what they think. As I've mentioned to Jack it is a fascinating subject. Ultimately I think people should live their lives as they wish as long as we're not hurting others. You know what I personally think, that's not really important though. If I've said anything that upsets people I do apologise I do not set out to upset people. I think having honest and open debate about Autogynephilia is a good thing. I'm not the one who has had major struggles through their life. What will you blog about? I'd be interested to read.

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#75 [url]

May 13 17 4:00 AM

To be brutally honest I have no time for Ray Blanchard and his autogynephilia theories because I find them to be deeply offensive and narrow-minded. I think Felix Conrad summed it up best for me by defining it as “Quackaphilia”.As Felix said its all “camouflaged traditional prejudices”  obscured by the cloak of pseudo-science. Blanchard vilifies and condemns at every turn because he has no interest in compassion and understanding so he deals in absolutes, not facts and to him we are all easily explained away as deviants and perverts.

It all seems a bit too convenient to me given the vast diversity of transgender individuals and it comes across to me as if he never really cared to do any hard work at all because all he really seems interested in is pigeon-holing people to suit his despicable and uncaring agenda. Well 
I have news for Ray Blanchard, when I crossdress it isn’t born from an inner sexual urge. I am not a fetish, I am simply being me and expressing myself so get over yourself pal!

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#76 [url]

May 13 17 6:39 AM

I don't claim to be a an expert in documentary making but I'd have thought the starting point to getting collaboration from a community is to find out what they think.. Rubbercripple you've spent so much time on this forum telling us what you think that you are now, frankly, wasting your time by trying to get collaboration here

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#78 [url]

May 13 17 12:55 PM

Well, Rubber...our long experience is that when people drop oneliners like that 'what's wrong with bthe term  homosexual transsexual' they are being deliberately provocative i.e trolling. But.,..whatever...if you say that's not the case then I believe you. I think you should read my post in response to this thread



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#79 [url]

May 13 17 1:43 PM

FelixC wrote:
Well, Rubber...our long experience is that when people drop oneliners like that 'what's wrong with bthe term  homosexual transsexual' they are being deliberately provocative i.e trolling. But.,..whatever...if you say that's not the case then I believe you. I think you should read my post in response to this thread



Cheers Felix! I've read it, saw it on Facebook. Record it for me, I need the contrast, you know ya wanna 😉

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