#21 [url]

Apr 27 17 7:56 PM

This is the problem with having a Quick reply box - I don't spend enough time thinking before hitting the Quick Reply button.

I am Canadian so my head of state is this Lady:


And yes, as Pip said, representational democracy is a much better term than republic - and actually I prefer living under a constitutional monarchy.

The only thing I would add here is to reiterate the bit about PC culture and why I said there has been this backlash. I was not suggesting that the state and our legal system should not defend the rights of minorities - quite the opposite I thought:

"The laws that our representatives pass in an attempt to preserve rights for the majority generally get used by marginalized groups to demand equal treatment"

However we do need to be cognizant of the fact that racists vote, that they give money to political parties, that circumstances can lend support to their repulsive views and that the general public can be swayed under such circumstances and vote for incredibly stupid things.... like voting to add $360 million pounds extra to NHS (a false statement used by the UKIP) or that Mexican's are murderer's and rapists (also false) or that transgender women are child molesters ( *facepalm* false). Where does this BS come from? Why would anyone believe it? Well we know it happened and it could happen again in France.


Why? The French who vote for Le Pen have their reasons, just like those who voted for Trump, or Brexit. Dismissing those people out of hand is dangerous because in a democracy we all get to vote, not just the smart or tolerant so it is important to genuinely try to convince them that they are wrong and to have any chance of that you have to listen to them first.

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#22 [url]

May 2 17 2:18 PM

PipX wrote:
‘Political Correctness’ as said, is a term of abuse levelld at people who oppose aal sort of things, including Racism, Feminism, anti-transism. So when anyone here claimed there is ‘too much political correctness’ I have to ask them what they mean, because the term ‘too much PC’ is sometimes used by people who want to defend Racism – or prejudice against gays and trans people. .. without making it clear that’s what they ae defending

I’m sure that’s not the case here

I feel there is an urgent need to return to this thread, and not only because of the above quote, but also due to all the other loose ends hanging around here. I also realize it's an herculean task and that future replies will for instance have to provide charts and tables. It's just that I'm personally not really interested in discussing these issues anymore. I'm weary as hell of it, and it was never the reason I signed up to Crossdream Life.

Just saw Adam Curtis' last documentary on the tube, and while he is originally coming from the left, as a (real life) national conservative, I always find he's got valuable things to say. Maybe not so much this time, however, but one thing he was clearly right about: due to search engine pre-selective algorithms, we now live in a world of ideological bubbles that only contain our own tribe. We never have to step outside our comfort zones in regards to our preferred perspectives on the world, as the almighty net provides us with ever more pre-selected material that is nothing but more of the same.

It shows up in this thread how it has become a problem.

"We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting."

- Khalil Gibran

If I cannot be a feminine traditional woman, what's the point of being a woman?

- Me

Last Edited By: Monique May 2 17 9:34 PM. Edited 4 times.

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#23 [url]

May 2 17 4:18 PM

I tend to run with a pretty eclectic crowd in my social life, which shouldn't be all that surprising because I'm not very ideological, or at least my ideology doesn't fit nicely into the usual left /right schism. So I can sit at a table in a bar and take in a lot of ideas without much emotional investment in them. I have both friends that are rather libertarian, and I have friends who are rather progressive. The common element seems to be that I roll with a lot of people who see themselves as individuals first, and to a certain are non conformists. A lot of the people I know are in the local music scene, which is not noted for convention. The one thing I don't have around me are any people who are very religious and highly dogmatic, but I am fascinated by reading their opinions. directly, even though many of them I suspect are my enemies.

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#25 [url]

May 5 17 8:12 AM

Monique wrote, "I feel there is an urgent need to return to this thread...due to search engine pre-selective algorithms, we now live in a world of ideological bubbles..."
Which is why I occasionally feel the need to pop that bubble :)


Last Edited By: Bobbi Dare May 5 17 8:15 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#26 [url]

May 10 17 7:52 AM

Many of these incidents have much more to do with internal academic politics and the administration than free speech. This is a balancing act for administrators to keep "consumers" (i.e. students) just placated enough without driving alumni and donors away. They're not really concerned about student safety or free speech. There was a good article on this recently:


This has already been going on for quite some time with universities shutting down pro-Palestine/BDS speakers:



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#27 [url]

May 11 17 10:05 AM

Sofie wrote, "Many of these incidents have much more to do with internal academic politics and the administration than free speech." I agree Sofie - I work in public administration and you are correct that this sort of censorship is driven by the realities of keeping big donors happy. I picked on academic organizations just due to the high profile nature of the incident - but my real point was to promote the idea of open dialog with our critics because, whether we like it or not, dumb ideas somehow get into the minds of average voter. If we do not go into their space to challenge dumb ideas they can cause damage individual rights. It is ironic but I think that the Trump administration is giving a much needed kick-in-the-ass to the left. I am seeing at lot of political activity that we have not seen (in such a focused manner) since the 80's. I think the outcome of this will be a more informed electorate - I am anxious to see the outcome of the Congressional elections in 2018; it could be a massive upset for the GOP.

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#28 [url]

May 11 17 1:00 PM

Since contributing earlier in this thread I've been thinking about this and I suspect the situation is different between the UK and USA... In the UK people who complain about 'political correctness' tend to be people who want the freedom to be racist and sexist without any comeback... I'm a supporter of free speech but also against racism/sexism.. so I will challenge people who are. That's not the same as saying people shouldn't talk... Its not that I want to silence racist people; I want people to stop being racist, so that they don't have racist thoughts they want to say

I have read some strange thinks coming out of university about people being 'no platformed'. I'm not saying that should happen because its better to challenge opinions you don't like than just say they shouldn't be spoken.

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#29 [url]

May 11 17 2:06 PM

Well I'm kinda left wing economically but not socially. People should be protected, not exploited or persecuted, for any reason, but I'm not going to be going on marches for or against abortion rights for example. 
That said, there does seem to be a rise in teaching people what I would consider leftist nonsense and cultural Marxism, and while it probably isn't this extreme it seems a pointless exercise.
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Some people just seem to want to be angry at everyone, any excuse to hurl abuse, well founded or not. I'd rather spend the time learning how to do good things that complaining about other people doing bad things.

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#30 [url]

May 11 17 5:19 PM

You know Xora - you do not have to march in protests to have an impact. Talking to family and friends helps as well. How many family dinners have you had with the racist uncle where you had an opportunity to challenge a stupid idea? Baby steps - winning the war one small battle at a time. Eugene is a good example. I have not given up on him, just waiting for the right opportunity to inform and influence.

Jack recently posted scan of an offensive posting from a Twitter feed - yes this women is offensive, she is ignorant, and she has some followers who are equally ignorant and offense - but you know it's not all bad. they want to exclude Trans Women from female spaces... ok they can create their own spaces and be exclusive. We can have our own spaces and be inclusive. we'll see how many people they have in their space vs ours.


Last Edited By: Bobbi Dare May 11 17 5:21 PM. Edited 3 times.

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#31 [url]

May 11 17 8:58 PM

Cool song,thanks. 
Actually my uncle was somewhere on the trans spectrum, a Cheryl-at-the-weekend type, but my dad didn't approve at all, and my mum seemed to want it brushed under the carpet and never mentioned, which is one of the things that made it harder for me to come out for so long. 
When he died fairly suddenly of cancer, she basically sent someone else round to his house to remove all the offending articles before she did the mass clearout, and it just wasn't mentioned at his funeral or anything like that. 

Well he split his life between old cars and computers and things on the one hand, and fairly extravagant fashions on the other hand, but kept different groups of friends so that the two sides didn't mix, except for a few that were in the know. 

I guess I was much more scared of getting involved with 'the community' than he was, well maybe it's just an age thing, he didn't do much till he was 30ish either as far as I know. His case might have been down to DES as he was born in the right time period and my grandmother had previously had a number of miscarriages.
People really didn't know or talk about those kinds of things back in the '50s. You just had to get on with it quietly, not scream at other people for being so Hetero-normative etc. I'm not sure if it's progress or not. I'm glad basic legal rights and surgical techniques and things have improved a lot since then, but I'm not that into identity politics. 
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