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Apr 18 17 4:53 AM

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I have for some time now become more and more convinced that there is something seriously wrong with the way we conceptualize female sexuality.  The stereotype of the passive, close to asexual woman is a myth.

Here is another interesting article that adds to the new view of what women want (and for that matter: what females of other species want) as regards sex and love.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/06/when-women-pursue-sex-even-men-dont-get-it.html?mid=fb-share-thecut

Read the whole thing, but here is one paragraph that I found especially interesting:
There are other factors propping up the idea that women prefer to be sexually passive. Bergner reports that preliminary research indicates women are most turned on by their partners' desire for them. It's easy to see how this could be misconstrued as passivity — especially because more than a century of conventional wisdom says women don’t like sex as much as men do. But if we accept Bergner’s radical thesis that women do, in fact, like to get off, and get off on being desired, the question of who pursues whom poses a real conundrum for single women. 

Think about it: Women want sex, and in particular, they want sex with people who really want them. But socially, many straight men still find it a turnoff when women are sexual aggressors. Which means that, for women, aggressively pursuing the thing they want actually leads to them not getting it. I suspect this is the source of much sexual dissatisfaction of the modern single lady, who's so horny she's running across the street to Walgreens to buy more batteries twice a week, but is unable to pick up men despite social conventions that men are "easy" to bed and women have to be coaxed into casual sex. The thing women are told they can access any time is, maddeningly, often just out of reach.


There are two things of relevance to crossdreamers and especially MTF crossdreamers here:

1. Female sexuality is no less sexual than male sexuality. The fact that MTF crossdreamers get turned on by something does not mean that they do not have a female side to their psyche.

2. The idea that women get turned on by being desired (in addition the traditional idea of being aroused by the male appearance) might help explain some MTF crossdreamers dreams of "feeling sexy" and desireable.
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#1 [url]

Apr 18 17 7:42 AM

The stereotype of the passive, close to asexual woman is a myth.

I must be a myth.

ANYWAY.......

Where does reproduction fit into all of this? Sure, this article is about human sexuality, especially the desires of women. I have to go back to animal biology.
When a stray female cat is in heat, she becomes very aggressive.  She gets really hungry too.  She craves food and sex.  Did kitty feel this way because of some love story kitty learned in cat school?  Did kitty see porn or fashion magazines with a woman on the cover 97% of the time?  Sexuality in the female has a pregnancy component.....I believe.  The male animal may give off the juice, for lack of a better term, but he does so without any thought of a latter burden.  When he realizes this for a split second, he's turned off.  Is it any wonder then, that "madams" at brothels are able to show their aggressive sexual sides?  Or phone sex ladies?   In such a context, it has been consented that there would be no latter burden of family to follow the encounter.  Is it any wonder why family life denounces brothel life? It is out of sheer jealousy, not wantonness, if you ask me.  image



 

Last Edited By: lal2828 Apr 18 17 7:45 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#2 [url]

Apr 18 17 9:59 AM

"a University of Michigan researcher found in 2011 that “gender differences are minimized when women feel that they can avoid being stigmatized for their behavior.” Women like having sex. They don’t like being socially punished for it."
- This makes total sense to me. If I wore my femininity every day I would be very concerned about being taken seriously and so responsible (i.e. socially acceptable) sexual behaviour is something I would be conscious of.

"Bergner reports that preliminary research indicates women are most turned on by their partners' desire for them. "
- YEEEUP!

"the question of who pursues whom poses a real conundrum for single women."
- conundrum? not really, more like angling! I have experienced this myself - there is a huge thrill in playing that eye-game right and the guy overcomes his shyness and comes up to talk. Of course at a club this is an easy opener... ask her to dance! :D

"men and women both agree that men should actively pursue female partners and that women should be passive recipients to their advances"
- this is so true and is one source of my gender dysphoria since I am wired to want to be the pursued; which ain't going to happen. :-(

"Women want sex, but they don't want to be seen as forward (or worse, desperate). Men want sex but are intimidated, unconfident, or don't want to be seen as domineering. We're not sure who should be the sexual instigators, and then no one really steps up to the plate."
- humm I'm sure this happens a lot because there are guys who are very shy, but come on! there is a lot of sexy-time happening; people eventually overcome their shyness and fall into the roles they are wired for (except for A-Sexual - *winks to Jen* ). On that topic I think the emergence of the gender bending culture we are seeing now is really going to help the Transgender community - even old-folks like me. Straights do not have to worry about making eyes at the wrong person or explaining Transgender 101 to that special someone they end up close dancing with. If everyone entering that club knows in advance that plumbing can go either way regardless of how your hunny is dressed then we can all just relax and get back to the other anxieties of breaking the ice.

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#3 [url]

Apr 18 17 1:39 PM

None of this surprises me. There's a weird ebb and flow to courtship among cis people. I love watching it get played out in the club scene on Saturday nights. I have become a bit of a voyeur in that regard. I don't believe either sex fully understands the other, but each misconstrues much about the other. I won't claim the exact same experience of cis women, but having experienced both hormone mixes in my body now, I think I have some clues as to the differences between the sexes in regards to arousal. Men are a quick burn whereas women burn much slower, but often more intensely. Women operate on the whole experience; they are multi-itaskers when it comes to sensory processing. Men are vastly more single minded and focused than females. I tend to believe that this is a direct consequence of T levels. A women being sexually aggressive totally a male messes with what he is focused on, usually a body part. I think women figure this out after a while, and behave accordingly/

Last Edited By: April Apr 18 17 2:23 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#4 [url]

Apr 18 17 2:12 PM

Bobbi Dare wrote:

- this is so true and is one source of my gender dysphoria since I am wired to want to be the pursued; which ain't going to happen. :-(

 

You just put your finger on a major component of my own psyche!  When I first encountered the word "autogynephilia" it was this wanting-to-be-desirable-and-pursued that I took it to mean.  (But of course its originator had something different in mind.)

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#5 [url]

Apr 19 17 12:19 PM

Kippi: I think you are correct in what you say "You just put your finger on a major component of my own psyche! When I first encountered the word "autogynephilia" it was this wanting-to-be-desirable-and-pursued that I took it to mean. " Autogynephilic males want to be desirable and pursued as women.

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#6 [url]

jackmolay wrote:
Think about it: Women want sex, and in particular, they want sex with people who really want them. But socially, many straight men still find it a turnoff when women are sexual aggressors. Which means that, for women, aggressively pursuing the thing they want actually leads to them not getting it. I suspect this is the source of much sexual dissatisfaction of the modern single lady, who's so horny she's running across the street to Walgreens to buy more batteries twice a week, but is unable to pick up men despite social conventions that men are "easy" to bed and women have to be coaxed into casual sex. The thing women are told they can access any time is, maddeningly, often just out of reach.


If this is true, again, blame it on feminism. It's feminism that's ever since the 70's has ingrained into the heads of men that if they so much as talk to a woman they are committing a form of mental rape, that they don't deserve love or sex for themselves, for after all, a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. It always was and remains a puritanistic, sex hating, femininity hating, masculinity hating and (oddly enough) simultaneously masculinity idealizing strain of thought.

It has resulted in pacified and emasculated men who think nothing of themselves, who'd never dream of daring to approach the "sublime object" (Baudrillard). No wonder some women of healthy sexual appetites are feeling increasingly frustrated.

"We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting."

- Khalil Gibran


If I cannot be a feminine traditional woman, what's the point of being a woman?

- Me

Last Edited By: Monique . Edited 1 time.

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#7 [url]

rubbercripple wrote:
Kippi: I think you are correct in what you say "You just put your finger on a major component of my own psyche! When I first encountered the word "autogynephilia" it was this wanting-to-be-desirable-and-pursued that I took it to mean. " Autogynephilic males want to be desirable and pursued as women.

Same here! Wow, cool! Thanks for reminding me this was the reason I fell for the theory! smiley: smile

"We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting."

- Khalil Gibran


If I cannot be a feminine traditional woman, what's the point of being a woman?

- Me

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#8 [url]

I was only trying to be nice. Okay, never mind. Whatever.

"We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting."

- Khalil Gibran


If I cannot be a feminine traditional woman, what's the point of being a woman?

- Me

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#10 [url]

Thank you for telling me. It's alright. smiley: smile

*Hugs*

"We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting."

- Khalil Gibran


If I cannot be a feminine traditional woman, what's the point of being a woman?

- Me

Last Edited By: Monique . Edited 1 time.

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#11 [url]

As moderator I am taking it upon myself to hide a post or two from this thread for violating rule 5 of the code of conduct.  If one of your posts was hidden and you object to that hide, please contact me.

I would like to encourage everyone to remember to keep things civil, and to have fun with the discussions going on.  


Thank you Emoji_heart_0_zpskh5s8vhr.jpg

Last Edited By: Lost247365 . Edited 1 time.

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#13 [url]

Rubber, I got your remark, as I believe you intended it. It's easy for there to be double meanings here, especially when we all have a history with one another. Like many things in the study of behavior, autogynephilia has many layers to it.Feelings in isolation look like one thing They look like something totally different as part of a much larger context.

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#15 [url]

rubbercripple wrote:
I've been.................
You are quite the Smooth Criminal aren't you?



Or would it be better to say you are just a Renegade:




PS: Fun is fun, but with that lets (you and me both) stop derailing this thread and get back on topic. Okay?  Cute  Songs for crossdreamers thread would be better for this:

http://crossdreamlife.lefora.com/topic/79/Songs-that-make-you-crossdream#.WPvQTPkrK7Q

Last Edited By: Lost247365 . Edited 2 times.

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#17 [url]

rubbercripple wrote:
Awesome tracks Lost! I was a bass player for 25 plus years. 🙂
Really? Any band we've heard of?

I still feel like this sometimes:

"We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting."

- Khalil Gibran


If I cannot be a feminine traditional woman, what's the point of being a woman?

- Me

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#18 [url]

No, I wasn't a famous musician but the band I started with a friend have gone on to become a pretty well liked prog/rock outfit we called the band Godsticks. In my youth learning music I wanted to be Ritchie Blackmore from Deep Purple. Never quite got into the punk scene though.

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