Mar 16 17 12:31 AM

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Joanna Santos writes over at her blog:
I am in the unique position, like many of you, to have experienced an early identification with the feminine become sexualized later on. This brought confusion and shame but this shouldn't be an automatic response unless your only frame of reference is traditional Judeo-Christian thinking where anything other than missionary position sex for the purposes of procreation was an aberration.

Taken out of this reference point however it is clear that the repeatability of this phenomenon for the gender dysphoric means that it is almost universal. The unique combination of being straight and having gender dysphoria, which only a tiny fraction of the population is exposed to, is its foundation.

Androphilic transsexuals don’t experience cross gender arousal and neither do gay males when they crossdress for the simple reason that they are not drawn sexually to women or their clothing. Hence their dysphoria will be unfettered by this phenomenon.

Exactly! Context is everything.

Edit: Correct URL: http://joannabefree.blogspot.no/2017/03/looking-past-cross-gender-arousal.html

Last Edited By: jackmolay Mar 20 17 1:58 AM. Edited 1 time

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#1 [url]

Mar 19 17 10:07 PM

Sorry, I am getting a 404 error on the link.

That said, are we sure that androphilic transwomen don't experience cross gender arousal?  I mean we already have research showing that cis-Women experience arrousal when they enjoy their own feminity, so it would only make sense that androphilic transwomen would also experience that as well.

Maybe, they just don't experience it on the same level we do, and because of that they probably don't recognize it as such.   I guess, if you are a person with any type of trans-identity and you are attracted to your target sex in anyway, this sensation is turned up to eleven on a dial that only goes to nine. 

I don't want to act like I know another person's mind better than they do, just speculating.

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#2 [url]

Mar 20 17 2:02 AM

They do!  Even Blanchard's numbers show that androphilic trans women can experience such arousal. Those observations did not fit his theory, however, so he claims that they are gynephilic trans women who are lying. image

Jaimie Veale's research confirm this. 

They are less likely to report such arousal, however, most likely because they interpret it as a natural heterosexual reaction. So yeah, I believe you are right.

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#3 [url]

Mar 20 17 4:32 AM

I feel no arousal on thinking either as a woman or a man.  I'm both aware and comfortable about having a natal female origin and proud to "soar" as the other gender, but without any sexual arousal.  Isn't this how a CIS person is supposed to be? 

I must be the CIS-est person........... or an alien.   

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#4 [url]

Mar 20 17 4:52 AM

I don't have cross gender arousal either, but I still think it's normal, and nothing problematic. I think something more crazy, like the ying/yang thing, and that we're two people. I spent time denying either one of the halves, but neither felt right or honest.

I don't know that we're all both. Maybe something like Aristophanes suggests in the symposium, that people talk about finding their "other half" because they wish to recover a more complete, primal nature. Though he suggests that any arrangement of the two is possible, two women, two men, or a man and a woman.

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#5 [url]

Mar 20 17 10:21 AM

Elsa Delyth wrote:
I don't have cross gender arousal either, but I still think it's normal, and nothing problematic. I think something more crazy, like the ying/yang thing, and that we're two people. I spent time denying either one of the halves, but neither felt right or honest.

I don't know that we're all both. Maybe something like Aristophanes suggests in the symposium, that people talk about finding their "other half" because they wish to recover a more complete, primal nature. Though he suggests that any arrangement of the two is possible, two women, two men, or a man and a woman.


I will check out the Symposium.  Thank you.

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#6 [url]

Mar 20 17 5:01 PM

The subject of autoeroticism is not confined to Transgender studies, researchers in other areas of human sexuality find it to be a common experience and not deviant in the slightest. For example I found this article (took me all of 2 minutes) from Psychology Today where the researcher, Leon F. Seltzer, Ph.D., characterizes auto-eroticism this way, "In the end, autoeroticism is best viewed as a more or less natural expression of our sexuality. And this is hardly anything to be ashamed of. In a sense, we’re all deviants—or, much more realistically, none of us is."

It is not too much of a stretch then to apply this same thinking to a Transgender individual whose target body image is out of sync with reality. When you start to imagine the target, or change your outward appearance to match your target, then one shouldn't be surprised by the autoerotic reaction. As Selter put it, "hardly anything to be ashamed of."

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#7 [url]

Mar 21 17 3:04 AM

Not long ago masturbation was considered a pathological kind of autoeroticism. The Sin of Onan! Doctors and theologians used the same arguments that are now used to invalidate transgender people. Any sexual activity that cannot potentially lead to procreation is a mental illenss/sin.

Thank you for some really interesting references, Bobbi. I know you are right. Eroticism and autoeroticism cannot be pulled apart, unless you reduce your sex life to a lust-less chore. We are not robots. Arousal and self-arousal are two sides of the same coin.

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#8 [url]

Mar 23 17 12:11 AM

"Androphilic transsexuals don’t experience cross gender arousal and neither do gay males when they crossdress"...oh yes they do. Another great Blanchard Myth.I know gay men who dress up sometimes and yes it turns them on they like being a sexy women at times (got a sexier wardrobe of clothes than I do and I have  transitioned).

And then the very many trans people who don't get aroused by 'just' thinking of themselves as a woman (if any ever have done) .
Remember that what AGP is supposed to be, you ONLY get aroused by thinking of yourself as a woman...not being a woman having sex with someone else...everyone forgets that little detail, but you can check out the  AGP tests yourself. It is defined very narrowly, you are ONLY aroused by the thought of yourself as having a woman's body (or parts of one) . And nothing else arouses you whatsoever. You don't get turned on by looking at an attractive man or woman, no other sexual fantasy ever happens....

I can honestly say I never got sexually excited  by 'just' thinking of myself as a woman, or by clothes, I had heaps of fantasies about doing all sorts of wild things with others as a woman though......And when I dressed up as a woman, when I was part time, I got relaxed I felt more myself, I could drop my male act for awhile. It was mental trick to give myself permission to act the way I really wanted to do.
Oh yes sometimes I'd look at myself and think that I looked pretty sexy and wished I had someone to have sex with....sigh. 

You have to remember everything Blanchard claims has never been proven, even by himself. They are just claims. They are no more meaningful than what the Pope says from a religious point of view. And the slut shaming about sexual fantasies pisses me off, because that is all it is, from a catholic extremist no less with questionable sexuality himself.

So what if I had fantasies about having sex being a woman when I hit puberty ...what was I supposed to fantasise about? Being a big hairy man rogering a little blond woman? 

Ok take an example, you have a fantasy about glamming yourself up, you look in the mirror and say 'I am looking hot tonight', You deliberately put on sexy underwear, your boy (or girl) friend  picks you up, you go out for dinner and dancing, you kiss and cuddle, touch each other up, then go home (or maybe never make it) and have great sex together. Now that is a standard cis female fantasy...and is not AGP in any way and many trans women have had that one (I have many times) .
An AGP fantasy would only involve you having a woman's body, looking at it and touching yourself up, no one else is involved ...  ever.

Lots of people here blaming themselves for having AGP...when they don't actually have it. Go and check out the AGP tests and see what they are.
In fact there is zero proof that it even exists....you know someone has a shaky  argument when they have to invent things like 'pseudo homosexuality' to hold it together... 

'Pseudo homosexuality'  (and bisexuality) what total nonsense. By that argument half the gay men around are really 'pseudo homosexuals'. 

And the poor old trans bisexual women get a hammering...if you have sex with with a man it is 'pseudo bisexuality' that is somehow different from what bisexual men do.
Notice there is no such thing to them as 'pseudo heterosexuality' when they have sex with a woman though.....that's true sex you see....
How did anyone believe this nonsense.

Take me, I did some exploring of my sexuality in the past, I had sex with men as a man, though I am mostly female attracted.
Now they would classify me back then as a gay man, as 'all bisexual men are really gay'.  If 1 in 100 sexual encounters were with a man you are gay.

Now when I transitioned (and still bisexual) I am AGP...because I now have this 'pseudo bisexuality' and I am really a straight man.
Trans women bisexuals are all really 'straight men' but all bisexual men are all really 'gay men'.  

Make up your minds boys ....  was I 'gay' back then and then amazingly became totally 'straight' when I transitioned?  

Added: And their derogatory misgendering terminology. If I have sex with a woman I am having lesbian sex. If it is with a man it is straight sex.
I am a bisexual women. I am not, as they keep claImIing, a gay man or a bisexual man or a heterosexual man..
They are just saying you are and always will be men ...just like the Catholic church or the TERFs do.
Sorry folks the Australian Govt diagrees with you and I am legally a woman.

Last Edited By: LisaM Mar 23 17 11:18 AM. Edited 3 times.

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#9 [url]

Mar 23 17 1:10 AM

Feeling Sexy

So what if I had fantasies about having sex being a woman when I hit puberty ...what was I supposed to fantasise about?

I did a search for "feeling sexy" on the interwebs. It is amazing to see how many articles there are on the subject, especially in women's magazines, and they all encourage women to feel sexy.

So that which is a big no no among transgender women, is something to seek after for cis women.

Here is one to do list I found: Notice how "autoeroticism" and dressing up sexy is encouraged!
How to feel sexy and desirable If you want to know how to feel sexy and desirable all the time, start using these 14 easy tips in your everyday life. And even before you know it, you’ll start to make guys sweat around you and drool as you walk away from them!

 #1 Like yourself down there. Well, we know girls have been taught to keep their hands away from their underpants from a very young age. But if you want to feel sexy about yourself, you need to fall in love with your vajayjay and spend some alone time with it now and then. After all, it’s the one thing that defines your sexuality. How can you ever feel sexy about yourself if you feel awkward about how you look down there or feel weird touching yourself down there? [Read: How to turn yourself on with your senses] 

#2 Smell good everywhere. Great smelling fragrances always make a girl feel sexy. Use fragrant body moisturizers and perfumes that leave a whiff of your sexy presence no matter where you go or who you walk past. It’ll make you feel sexier and get you more attention too.

 #3 Dress sexy. Wear clothes that make you feel good and confident. What looks good on one person may not look great on another. Experiment, pick the colors that look good on you and fill your wardrobe with clothes that makes you look good and feel good.

 #4 Confidence. Your body language and your confidence can make all the difference between a sexy girl and an average one. Appear confident and elegant, and always remember to be graceful in your gestures. [Read: 10 tips to be graceful and elegant] 

#5 Get a great body. Physical attractiveness is the biggest asset in a girl who looks and feels sexy. While sex appeal isn’t all about appearance, having a perfect body is half the job done in increasing your sex appeal and desirability. 

#6 Wear clothes that accentuate your assets. If you’ve got it, don’t feel shy or awkward to flaunt it. When you’re appreciated for your flattering assets , it’ll make you feel more sexy and confident about your sexual self. 

#7 Groom yourself everywhere. Don’t give yourself an opportunity to feel awkward about any body parts at any time, be it your body hair or odor. Always appear like you’ve just stepped out of a salon, whether you’re being your casual self or at a red carpet event. 

#8 Get experienced. Flirt whenever you get the opportunity. It makes you feel sexy. Have fun and enjoy yourself with the opposite sex, be it while having a conversation or making out in bed. [Read: How to make out with a guy like a sex goddess] 

#9 Wear sexy underwear. Sexy underwear always makes a girl feel sexy. It doesn’t matter if others can see what you’re wearing inside. As long as you know that you look like a million bucks in your negligees, it’s all that matters to feel sexy on the outside. 

#10 Don’t be prudish. You may have been taught that it’s better to be shy and naive than be outspoken and aware. But if you want to feel sexy, don’t be prudish or judgmental about different people’s sexual interests. Have an open mind when it comes to sex, and you’ll enjoy your sexual experiences a lot more.

 #11 Eye contact. Be willing to lock your eyes intensely with a cute guy. Have a strong and unwavering eye contact when you’re flirting or talking sexy with a guy. It makes you seem more confident and sexy even if you’re not talking dirty or making it obvious that you’ve got sex on your mind. [Read: 10 subtle eye contact flirting tips]

 #12 Clubbing. Party often and don’t think twice about painting the town red. Have fun and be the cynosure no matter where you are. When you’re enthusiastic about having a good time with the opposite sex, it makes you more sexy and desirable without even trying. [Read: Tips to grind with a guy sexily and discreetly] 

#13 Feeling sexy is all in your head. More than anything else, how you appear depends on the way you feel inside. If you feel confident and sexy while chatting a guy up, you’ll make the guy feel the same about you. So instead of overindulging in skimpy clothes or flirty moves, just learn to feel sexy about yourself by believing the fact that you’re indeed sexy and desirable.

 #14 Attention from the opposite sex. Stolen glances and flirty conversations with the opposite sex always feel good. And it definitely makes you feel sexy. Enjoy having conversations with the opposite sex and don’t shy away from any attention you may be getting. Instead, learn to enjoy the attention.

Last Edited By: jackmolay Mar 23 17 1:12 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#10 [url]

Mar 25 17 1:24 PM

And what about asexual trans people? I have friend who is asexual who just transitioned....

With an amazing application of circular logic that the most ardent sophist would applaud they square the circle by saying' AGP causes asexuality' with absolutely zero proof of course (proof who needs proof we are factier than you are)...right and you are classified as having AGP because your are asexual..think about it...what comes first then?
They do the same with bisexuality as well, when they are not chattering away about 'pseudo bisexuality'.

I agree totally sexual fantasies and arousal are just normal (except for asexuals of course) whatever they are. I have had two female partners who had very strong fantasies about being a prostitute. Now they didn't want to be one, but both loved play acting and dressing like one at times. Even in normal external clothing one always loved wearing very sexy underwear. She did that long before I met her.... It made her feel sexy. Then there was anther one who fantasised about having sex with a group of men at once. So sexuality is a complex web of desire, fantasy and actions.

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