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Feb 22 17 6:12 PM

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Hey guys, just found this forum though I've come across crossdreaming before in my travels trying to understand myself more (I consider myself to be non-binary more specific labels I've never been sure about.)

For a long time sexually I would not picture myself, I would have fantasies about two guys, or sometimes a woman and a man. Recently it's been mostly two guys again (I would say since the beginning of puberty it was probably 70% of the time two men.) But anyway more recently I would occasionally picture myself in short daydreams, sometimes half conciously like ideas just swimming into my head. When this happens often I picture myself with a penis.

Sorry if this next part is too graphic just kind of signed up and went straight into posting this without feeling this place out too much.

Something I noticed while reading about many crossdreamers including ftm ones is that a lot of ftm seem to fantasise about having sex with women as a man. Personally I very rarely think about having sex with a woman but instead with a guy I find attractive - I'm mostly attracted to guys who look fairly androgynous and feminine. I like long hair a lot, slim bodies, guys who crossdress, guys who wear makeup, but sometimes less androgynous guys too (though the long hair thing is a constant preference.) But because I'm mostly attracted to men I will fantasise about myself having sex with men, if I'm involved in the fantasy. (I can be attracted to women, perhaps partly because of my appreciation of femininity, but it's more incidental and less intense because I like the male body a lot and that balance of traits I suppose.) Very rarely I fantasise about having sex with them while they have a vagina, but they always have a penis as well during such fantasies (so like physically both I suppose,) but I would say that's rare and usually I have fantasies about things like being given a blowjob (most common fantasy,) or having anal sex with them etc.

So I guess I'm wondering how common this is, since I feel like most ftm crossdreamers seem to fantasise about having sex with women, also curious about the sexualities of ftm, like if there are statistics and stuff. It just seems so rare to come across female assigned at birth people who have these fantasy's (whatever their gender identity.) It's very difficult to find information to be honest.

 
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#1 [url]

Feb 22 17 9:48 PM

I'd say that your question is very hard to answer with any accuracy. We know that sexuality and gender are orthogonal and unrelated, first off. We also believe that around 3% of cisgender people are gay/lesbian, and 0.6% of adults are transgender. I'm not aware of statistics that tie these two together. Worse, I've heard that trans people's sexuality can change under HRT, but that is unpredictable, and maybe a small percentage... I'm really not sure.

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#2 [url]

Feb 23 17 1:03 AM

Welcome to CDL, Loki!

(I love the name, being Scandinavian and all. He was a real gender challenger, that one...)

I have asked a couple of our FTM members to take a look at your questions. I am MTF myself, but I have discussed this with quite a few FTM crossdreamers and "girlfags".

The problem is that noone has done proper research on FTM crossdreamers. Ray Blanchard, the man who came up with the pseudo-sciencific autogynephilia theory, refuses to believe that FTM crossdreamers who love men even exist. When Lou Sullivan, the founder of the American FTM movement tried to get Blanchard to understand that he, Lou, was a gay man loving men, Blanchard refused to listen. However, Jaimie Veale (herself a transgender woman) has done some research that indicates that a significant proportion of trans men love men.

I understand that you are not considering yourself a transsexual man. Most FTM crossdreamers do not. But if you are looking for research, you often have to make use of the one done on those who transition or would like to transition. As crossdreaming go there is no clear boundary between those that do transition and those that do not anyway. And Veale's research encompasses a wide variety of gender variant people.

In other words: You loving men instead of women is perfectly normal as far as FTM crossdreamers go. If I were to guess (and this is a guess), I would expect the majority of FTM crossdreamers to be bisexual or androphilic (man loving), mirroring the situation on the MTF side, where a majority is bisexual or gynephilic (woman loving).

When I look at the girlfag community (which contains a lot of FTM crossdreamers) I also see a lot of examples of female assigned people fantasizing about being a gay man with gay men. Indeed, many of them also report that they are not only attracted to men in general, but to feminine men of sorts. They do not have to be gay.

Moreover, many -- if not most -- of the girlfags also report that they do not necessarily imagine themselves having a male body. Instead they fantasize about two men having sex, just as you have explained. MTF crossdreamers are more likely to develop elaborate fantasies about being transformed into women. This is also reflected in FTM vs. MTF erotica. FTM erotica, as found in slash or yaoi, rarealy depict transformations. MTF erotica does this all the time. I am not quite sure why this is so, but I suspect it has something to do with a society that is a little bit more forgiving to gender variance in women than in men.

I have written a few blog posts on FTM crossdreamers that might be of interest:



 

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#3 [url]

Feb 23 17 1:15 AM

Keo-Meyer & Co has done a study that shows that most gender variant people, MTF of FMT are gender fluid and outside the strict binary:

This study characterized sexual orientation identities and sexual fluidity in attractions in a community-based sample of self-identified transgender and gender-nonconforming adultsin Massachusetts. Participants were recruited in 2013 using bimodel methods (online and in person) to complete a one-time, Web-based quantitative survey that included questionsabout sexual orientation identity and sexual fluidity. Multivariable logistic regression modelsestimated adjusted risk ratios (aRRs) and 95% confidence intervals (95% CIs) to examinethe correlates of self-reported changes in attractions ever in lifetime among the whole sample(n¼452) and after transition among those who reported social gender transition (n¼205).The sample endorsed diverse sexual orientation identities: 42.7% queer, 19.0% othernonbinary, 15.7% bisexual, 12.2% straight, and 10.4% gay=lesbian. Overall, 58.2% reportedhaving experienced changes in sexual attractions in their lifetime. In adjusted models, trans masculine individuals were more likely than trans feminine individuals to report sexual fluidity in their lifetime (aRR¼1.69; 95% CI¼1.34, 2.12). Among those who transitioned,64.6% reported a change in attractions posttransition, and trans masculine individuals wereless likely than trans feminine individuals to report sexual fluidity (aRR¼0.44;95% CI¼0.28, 0.69). Heterogeneity of sexual orientation identities and sexual fluidityin attractions are the norm rather than the exception among gender minority people.


 

Last Edited By: jackmolay Feb 23 17 1:20 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#4 [url]

Feb 23 17 2:57 AM

I tried to reply to this post (the original, the replies have appeared since) using my phone in bed last night and accidently deleted what I put...... First of all I wouldn't think you have to worry about being explicit .. I'm not saying I like to see really explicit stuff on the boards, but you are nowhere near.. Got to say some stuff about what you like or how can you describe your situation?

I certainly wouldn't compare yourself with others - in a bad way. Yours dreams are your dreams.. That said I like to know about others and compare, in a good way

I'm like Jack a MtF Crossdreamer; I won't fill your thread with stuff about me but I hope we can chat sometimes.. I'm often found in the chat room.. as Chat room Mod, I hope you look in there sometime. Its not always got someone in it, but its been busy last week... But I'll prob organise another official chat room event soon

Pip

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#5 [url]

Feb 24 17 12:43 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone.

jackmolay wrote:
Keo-Meyer & Co has done a study that shows that most gender variant people, MTF of FMT are gender fluid and outside the strict binary:
This study characterized sexual orientation identities and sexual fluidity in attractions in a community-based sample of self-identified transgender and gender-nonconforming adultsin Massachusetts. Participants were recruited in 2013 using bimodel methods (online and in person) to complete a one-time, Web-based quantitative survey that included questionsabout sexual orientation identity and sexual fluidity. Multivariable logistic regression modelsestimated adjusted risk ratios (aRRs) and 95% confidence intervals (95% CIs) to examinethe correlates of self-reported changes in attractions ever in lifetime among the whole sample(n¼452) and after transition among those who reported social gender transition (n¼205).The sample endorsed diverse sexual orientation identities: 42.7% queer, 19.0% othernonbinary, 15.7% bisexual, 12.2% straight, and 10.4% gay=lesbian. Overall, 58.2% reportedhaving experienced changes in sexual attractions in their lifetime. In adjusted models, trans masculine individuals were more likely than trans feminine individuals to report sexual fluidity in their lifetime (aRR¼1.69; 95% CI¼1.34, 2.12). Among those who transitioned,64.6% reported a change in attractions posttransition, and trans masculine individuals wereless likely than trans feminine individuals to report sexual fluidity (aRR¼0.44;95% CI¼0.28, 0.69). Heterogeneity of sexual orientation identities and sexual fluidityin attractions are the norm rather than the exception among gender minority people.



 

Thanks for the links, I've read through a couple of your articles and they are very interesting and I can see a lot of parralels with myself in some of what you've talked about, and comments I've read on some of your articles as well.

Like you say there is a lack of research, hopefully that will continue to change in the future though.

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