Lead

Sep 6 16 7:03 PM

Tags : :

(The song has nothing to do with transgender ideas; it just goes with my title.)



Thinking about all the wars and conflicts that humans have waged on earth since the beginning of time (yes, I can think about wars through a love song), most of the developed nations have managed to reduce head-on conflicts during the turn of the millenium.  From an evolutionary perspective, times of war would bring out FTMs: Joan of Arc, Debra Sampson, Mulan, etc.  So, with fewer wars (with hand-to-hand combat at least), and a rise in popularity of "equality," are FTMs evolutionary residues from another age? Is it any wonder why there are fewer FTMs than MTFs? Or that more FTMs DE-transition than MTFs do? Might have past eras been better settings for FTMs? Variation in females is almost expected and celebrated nowadays, to the point of becoming invisible.  

**********

Through the years, men's fashion has become more and more similar to each other GLOBALLY: short hair, pants, suit and tie in the office, etc.  It wasn't so in history, even during wartime! Royal life was a drag stage, literally! Look:
 image

When crossdressing, I notice that a lot of MTFs tend to choose corsets, stockings, lace, etc. as these items were popular historically! Most royal guys didn't go to wars. Poor guys did.  Look at the "hair band" musicians of the 1980s.  A decade without much wars = a time of hair, hair, and more hair (dyed and curled!).  Are MTFs evolutionary residues of royal courts? Would MTFs been better off in the royal courts of kings, popes, and emporers?  This anachronism has a parallel with FTMs belonging to past centuries.  

Now, here's the modern day paradox:

Unlike females that are celebrated no matter what they do in contemporary life, fashionable guys are not considered alpha males or manly men.  Men are all expected to look like a "standard man."  The turn of events through the years with fewer and fewer wars have reversed the roles of women and men, but while women can become men, men cannot become women.  I believe that the transphobic paradox is because humans are still wired for wars through a collective unconsciousness.  Men have fought and settled most of their wars, so (cis) women can safely come out and play now.  The inherent misogyny in MTF is clear, even to women (who must still hate themselves throughout eternity.) Yet, the threat of war is always there, thus the anxiety to play around like women..... even for rich guys, whom poor war-drafted men despised.  



Reincarnation.......you think?  
 

Last Edited By: jackmolay Sep 12 16 6:18 AM. Edited 2 times

Quote    Reply   

#1 [url]

Sep 7 16 12:04 AM

There have definitely been cultures and epochs were the female warrior was recognized and celebrated.

It is easy to forget these days that in ancient civilizations like Sumeria the god of war was a goddess of war (Ishtar and Innanna)


 image

Viking culture was not a gender equal culture in the modern sense of the word, but women were powerful, and might also be warriors or shield maidens.

 image

The Germanic tribes of antiquity and the early middle ages where not the only ones that had female warriors. The Celts did to. 

Here's a presentation of Boudica, the chieftain that tried to stop the Romans from taking over Britain:

image

So I guess there have been times when women who associate themselves with or identify with male or masculine traits or ideals would find it easier to express such feelings.

That being said:  The shield maidens are back in Scandinavia

 image

And they are more powerful that ever in the field of politics. In Norway the Prime Minister, The Minister of Finance, The Minister of Defense, the leader of the main business organization and the leader of the trade unions are all women. I am not sure whether their newfound power is caused by a lack of war or them becoming warriors.

Quote    Reply   

#2 [url]

Sep 7 16 8:36 PM

(The lips move upward on each side while the brows turn downward in the middle. A low laugh seems to be brewing.)

SO........WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CIS WOMEN AND FTMS???????????

***************

And how would you explain part two: guys and "hair, hair, and more hair (dyed and curled!)" ??? (The evolutionary theories I believe.  A love for hair and historical women's clothing, I'm still trying to understand.) Modern women's fashion has plenty of pants and t-shirts? And then, there's that need to look like the SKINNIEST young girl imaginable! Why not look like the average North American liberal college feminist ?? TERFs?? They women they say!
 

Quote    Reply   

#3 [url]

Sep 8 16 12:37 AM

Maybe we are both mixing up two dimensions:

1. Masculinity and femininity and the need to express this side.
2. Gender identity.

There have been trans people around in all epochs. The temples of Sumeria had priestesses who had grown up as men, before having their genitalia sacrificed to the goddess. They also dressed up as women.

But in other cases the gender violators may have identified with their assigned gender. Their need has been to express the desires, interests, abilities and traits given to the other gender in their culture.

The modern Norwegian shield maidens and politicians are not necessarily FTMs (although they might be) -- they are women who have finally been allowed to explore their real potential.

As for feminine clothing for men. This is puzzling for me too. In the 1970s and the 1980s fashion for men was at least partly "feminized" as regards colors and styles. 


 image

I am not sure why this changed.  

I know that there was a huge "masculine" backlash against the 1970s disco culture. I suspect this was partly caused by homophobia and racism in white rock circles. (Disco gave ample room for queer and black people) But that does not explain why bands like Modern Talking (picture above) could continue the feminine approach in the post-disco period.

 image
(Photof Disco Demolition Night July 12, 1979, with Nazi-style burning of disco-records.)

Quote    Reply   

#4 [url]

Nov 9 16 9:03 PM

There have been trans people around in all epochs. The temples of Sumeria had priestesses who had grown up as men, before having their genitalia sacrificed to the goddess. They also dressed up as women.


Found it.  I snapped this on a recent trip to the archaeology department of the Uni. of Pennsylvania.  (Excuse the poor resolution.  I didn't know I could take pics with a flash.)

 image

  image
In the statue, what seems to be a masculine looking middle-aged woman may have passed as such, if not for the priest hat that only male priests can wear.  (Don't know where the bosom came from.) 

Last Edited By: lal2828 Nov 9 16 9:16 PM. Edited 3 times.

Quote    Reply   

#5 [url]

Nov 10 16 12:31 AM

Great find!

I have read some seriously heavy descriptions of the galli (Cybele priestesses) transition rituals.

Here is one such description. Note that the sources we have are all writers who looked down upon the galli (as they were considered effeminate men -- what else is new?)

Although largely forbidden by Roman authorities, The Galli castrated themselves during an ecstatic celebration called the Dies Sanguinis, or Day of Blood, which took place on March 24, during the Meagalesia. The Megalesia, Megalensia, or Megalenses Ludi, was a festival in the month of April to  honor of the mother of the gods.  The Galli put on women's clothing, mostly yellow in color, and a sort of turban, together with pendants and ear-rings. They also wore their hair long, and bleached, and wore heavy make-up. They wandered around with followers, begging for charity. In return they told fortunes. Libations and hallucinogens flowed freely. On the day of mourning for Attis they ran around wildly. Euphoric and disheveled, they performed dances to the music of pipes and tambourines, and, in an ecstasy, flogged themselves until they bled. One of the strangest customs of the Galli was their preferred form of castration. During these ecstatic festivals in their frenzied state, they would eagerly beg the female disciples and priestesses of Cybele to bite off their testicles. The women would then accost passersby with the mutilated genitalia or throw them up on to the balconies or wealthy citizens.

I have seen other descriptions (by Lucianus) that say that they cut of their male genitalia with their own knife, before throwing them into the house of people they passed in the streets. The people living there were then obliged to provide them with female attire. That sounds like a more "realistic" description to me. Having women bite of your testicles sounds like a kind of forced feminization myth made up to deligitimize them. 

Lucianus' version of the ritual can be found here.

The following images are from Rome, and as I understand it the Roman emperor banned the castration ritual. The feminine gender expressions and clothing remains though.

 image
Fig. 3. Funerary relief of a priest[ess] Magna Mater ( gallus ) from Lavinium. Rome, Capitoline Museums (middle ii th century AD.). CCCA , III, 1977, No. 466, pl.296.


 image

Fig. 4. Statue of a priest[ess] of Magna Mater ( gallus ) from Rome. Rome, Capitoline Museums (late ii th century AD.). Roller (1999) Fig. 70.

I see from your photo of the description of the statue that they considered this a "eunuch" and a man. That is the way people in antiquity often describe them too. But to me this is misleading. A eunuch is a man who is chastrated in order to stop him from functioning sexually. A galli is a male to female transgender of sorts who identify with the goddess and/or women in such a way that they decide to live and present as  a woman.

By the way: Jesus talked about eunuchs:

 “There are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”  Matthew 19:12,

As you can see he talks about (1) intersex people, (2) people who has been chastrated as a kind of punishment and (3) those who do so voluntarily. Some trans people have intepreted (3) as support for transgender people transitioning. That might be the case, given that the galli would be part of the contemporary cultural framework. But he might also be referring to men who chastrated themselves in order to reduce the sex drive. We do not know. In any case, his attitudes were pretty radical.

 

Quote    Reply   
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help