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Nov 19 15 10:57 PM

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I lilke Serial Experiments Lain, by the way. It got really crazy ass shit to torture viewers, but not as bad, as Evangelion.

It sympathizes with me, what protagonist does at the end of it. No spoilers, if you never seen the title. Chances are slim, but I do not take it.

P.S. If by some inexplicable reason, you'd want to read it, here's long rambling threads of text. Enjoy:
1. Introduction.
2. Old Journal.
 

“Trying and getting hurt can't possibly be worse for you than being... stuck.” 
Eliezer Yudkowsky, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality

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#2 [url]

Nov 20 15 10:40 AM

Elsa Delyth wrote:
I don't even remember how SEL ended... 

Good for you...
I never saw Evangelion... giant robots... eeewww.

Creepy spoiler *whispering*: they aren't robots. If anything, you can watch Eva Rebuild movies. First one was pretty close to original, but second and third had some pretty damn good [and mind screwing] imagery. Actually, everything in it is supposed to screw with your mind. Evangelion is basically, a vile, poisonous criticism of anime and f*ed up otaku culture (in author's opinion, anyway), that turned into cult classics anyway. So, watch or not - it doesn't matter.

Your mind is software. Program it.

Your body is a shell. Change it.
Death is a disease. Cure it.
Extinction is approaching. Fight it!

© "Eclipse Phase" by Posthuman Studios

Last Edited By: Lain Nov 20 15 10:52 AM. Edited 2 times.

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#3 [url]

Nov 20 15 1:20 PM

No offense about SEL, you can insult Utena if you like, I'll cry inside, but suck it up.

Yeah, I've heard plenty about Evangelion, and it's totes giant robots, I don't care what anyone says, what the authors say, they're giant robots. It's totes a mech anime.

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#5 [url]

Nov 20 15 7:41 PM

SEL was pretty good too, I just don't remember the ending. I think I know what happened, which is probably it, but not sure. I'd say what I thought it was, but don't want to give spoilers...

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#6 [url]

Nov 21 15 4:44 AM

It's fitting.

Your mind is software. Program it.

Your body is a shell. Change it.
Death is a disease. Cure it.
Extinction is approaching. Fight it!

© "Eclipse Phase" by Posthuman Studios

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#7 [url]

Nov 21 15 8:05 AM

I saw both SEL, and the TV version of EVA.

SEL was pretty good, but iirc, the I didn't like the ending too much. Which is strange, because it was very similar to the ending the first Madoka Magica but that anime's ending felt more fullfilling to me.

I loved EVA for the first half, but the 2nd half killed my enthusiasm for the show because it became too maudlin for my tastes. I stopped watching after the episode with Asuka in the bathtub in the broken down house and didn't come back for several years. The whole show is designed to depress a person and the main message seems to be "give up" humanity is doomed.

I also disliked how no matter what happened, Shinji's character remained the same weak willed emo depressive he was at the start, and if anything, brought everyone else down with him. I have seen the first two of the new movies and I do think they are improving upon the original series.

One mech anime I really liked is Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. It is, in my opinion, the anti-EVA. It throws out all the rules and tropes of the mecha genre, and turns the whole genre on its head. No getting lost in long expositions on technology, no attempts to be realistic, and if anything reveling in its own cartoonish absurdity.

The best part though, is that while Simon starts out like Shinji, a weak willed depressive, he actually changes and grows as a person. By the end he embodies self confidence and believing in yourself. And while there is tons of tragedy and loss that the characters endure, it keeps its message of hope to the very end.




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#8 [url]

Nov 21 15 8:25 AM

Well, Eva and TTGL (I dropped it after first episode, no offense) are two extremes.

But in the end, however friendly and happy, we all succumb in Oblivion. Everything is kinda meaningless and just having fun, while it lasts, until we can abolish death, ignorance, misunderstanding and mistrus. Except maybe, fighting death, ignorance, misunderstanding and mistrust, but I can't be sure.

We need to bend and throw away all rules, that govern our existance. But we didn't it already, and probably never will in our lives. What's only good, that came closer to discerning, what are real laws and what was made up...

And now it have occured to me, I haven't much of the 'favorite' things. That's always a whole 'bunch' of things, that had impact of me or had something awesome inside of them, but hadn't great in gerenal. I've tried to figure out my absolute best anime and failed to do so.

Your mind is software. Program it.

Your body is a shell. Change it.
Death is a disease. Cure it.
Extinction is approaching. Fight it!

© "Eclipse Phase" by Posthuman Studios

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#9 [url]

Nov 21 15 9:10 AM

No offense taken, I am just kind of happy to find a place to discuss shows like SEL and EVA. Yay

I agree with you that in the end we all succumb to Oblivion. I consider myself an existential nihilist, in that I believe that the only meaning to life is that which we, ourselves, give it. So I agree with alot of what you say. I just like my fantasy and escapism to present a brighter alternative.

But I can also enjoy shows that explore the darker side of reallity. For instance, another show I mentioned, Madoka Magica, prevents a very dark and cynical look at the Magical Girl trope so common in anime.

I also have a hard time discerning a single favorite when it comes to anime. There are a lot of them I like, with a variety of themes. I would have a hard time choosing between things like Record of the Lodoss War and Claymore for example. I like both of them, and many others.

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#10 [url]

Nov 21 15 10:01 AM

I consider myself (a bit) creative nihilist. image

You wanted to say 'presents'? =)

I mostly like tragic japanese anime with sad/bittersweet ending or epic shonen when main larger than life hero just crashes through whoever opposes him. Regular stuff.

I also like, when they do stories about exploring actual sci-fi themes in adult way, such as relationships with robots, utopias or racial segregation. They also usually don't have happy, sad endings or cliffhangers, like most ongoing series do. 

 Actually, I remember one. I Iiked it's approach to storytelling. It was called "Shinsekai Yori".

“There is no justice in the laws of nature, no term for fairness in the equations of motion. The Universe is neither evil, nor good, it simply does not care. The stars don't care, or the Sun, or the sky. 

But they don't have to! WE care! There IS light in the world, and it is US!” 

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#11 [url]

Nov 21 15 11:28 AM

Haven't heard of that one, I will have to check it out at some time.

Have you seen Basilisk?

It is like 
Shakespeare's Romio and Juliet if it was set in Japan, with Ninjas, and unlike Shakespeare's version,  didn't suck. Tongue




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#12 [url]

Nov 21 15 11:46 AM

I've seen live action movie, based on Basilisk (I haven't heard of it at the time), called Shinobi. It was pretty awesome.

Your mind is software. Program it.

Your body is a shell. Change it.
Death is a disease. Cure it.
Extinction is approaching. Fight it!

© "Eclipse Phase" by Posthuman Studios

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#13 [url]

Nov 23 15 3:00 PM

Another anime and manga fan signing in (hope I'm not too late)! Well, I don't recognize most titles you're mentioning here, but I've seen both SEL and Evangelion (my first anime ever). 16 year old me was absolutely blown away by EVA, even though the last episodes seemed a bit lacking to me. Upon rewatching it later I just found it to be kinda hollow and Shinji a tad too annoying and whiny. I'm wondering how this series could achieve its cult status. It was good at setting the mood and hits a nerve with depressed kids going through puberty, I guess?
SEL on the other hand stayed with me over the years. If it's not my favorite anime, it's definitely the one that had the most impact on me. Dunno, there's just so much to it: artistically, emotionally and plot-wise + its vision of the future is basically a reality today: people being connected almost all the time, transcending more and more into virtual space (which is a scary thing if you think about it). As far as the ending goes... I think it was good and logical conclusion to the story. As a human she has no place in this world.

Lainhart
I also like, when they do stories about exploring actual sci-fi themes in adult way, such as relationships with robots, utopias or racial segregation. They also usually don't have happy, sad endings or cliffhangers, like most ongoing series do. 

I not too fond of sci-fi, but thoroughly enjoyed Planetes. It's settled in the near future, where space exploration has taken quite the leap forward: a city on the moon, space stations and everything. It's really not too far out there. The protagonists work for a waste disposal company in space, each with their own motivation... It really is a quality anime, that touches on human and political subjects in a heartfelt way.

Also... did you watch Texhnolyze? ABe (same guy as in Lain) did the character design and it has a (dystopian) sci-fi setting, so you might enjoy it. 

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#14 [url]

Nov 23 15 4:13 PM

Merle wrote:
Another anime and manga fan signing in (hope I'm not too late)! Well, I don't recognize most titles you're mentioning here, but I've seen both SEL and Evangelion (my first anime ever). 16 year old me was absolutely blown away by EVA, even though the last episodes seemed a bit lacking to me. Upon rewatching it later I just found it to be kinda hollow and Shinji a tad too annoying and whiny. I'm wondering how this series could achieve its cult status. It was good at setting the mood and hits a nerve with depressed kids going through puberty, I guess?
 

The most fun part, that I'm not really polar about Eva in any way. I don't hate it or love it. It has some good moments, and weak ones. It even had some really bizarre and awesome imagery (Berserk Eva is total awesome! Or hyperdimansional crystal!). Hell, Rebuild has it even further... but it doesn't realle grabs me. Just a story to immerse myself in. 
Merle wrote:
people being connected almost all the time, transcending more and more into virtual space (which is a scary thing if you think about it).

I guess the word, you were looking to is "bleeding into". image
Merle wrote:
Also... did you watch Texhnolyze? ABe (same guy as in Lain) did the character design and it has a (dystopian) sci-fi setting, so you might enjoy it. 

 
I did. It was bizarre enough to grab my attention, but I can't really say, I liked it. I didn't get it. Sometimes, form over substance is okay and sometimes i's not. Maybe, I liked it, but can't remember a thing from it's plot. Was there any?...

Yeah, Lain did everything right... 

Your mind is software. Program it.

Your body is a shell. Change it.
Death is a disease. Cure it.
Extinction is approaching. Fight it!

© "Eclipse Phase" by Posthuman Studios

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#15 [url]

Nov 23 15 5:52 PM

I did see Lain but not Evanglion, though I guess I a lot of people like it. I think I understand why you like Lain, after all it is disjointed and confused. The one I really liked that kind of questioned the nature of things was The Melconcoly of Haruhi Suzumiya, I like the fact behind the show, plus I think I would kind of like a girl like that, you know one that is strong willed and kind doing her own thing, anyone seen it. Plus the old standard of Pokemon, nothing to deep about that though lol.

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#16 [url]

Nov 23 15 11:07 PM

Lainhart wrote:

Merle wrote:
people being connected almost all the time, transcending more and more into virtual space (which is a scary thing if you think about it).

I guess the word, you were looking to is "bleeding into". image

Oh well, transcending would be more of an intended spiritual thing, right? Yeah, what I meant is more of a sunconscious thing coming from thoughtless use of technology...
Lainhart
I did. It was bizarre enough to grab my attention, but I can't really say, I liked it. I didn't get it. Sometimes, form over substance is okay and sometimes i's not. Maybe, I liked it, but can't remember a thing from it's plot. Was there any?...

I didn't really like the tone of the anime, it was just too bleak and hopeless for my taste.. So I stopped watching halfway through. I even tried a second time, but absolutely couldn't get myself to like it. BUT it for sure has a plot - it's just the narrative jumping from storyline to storyline without explaining shit. Whole story is set in an underground city where the divide between poor and rich is quite huge. Then there are the "Texhnolyze", which are kybernetic super prosthesis granting inhumane power (everybody is after those but the poor can't afford them), some shady organization called the "Organo" (see where this is going), some raging war and something with religion. Our main story is about one poor clueless fuck, a boxer guy, who loses an arm and a leg and is then used as a guinea pig for the Texhnolyze. The overall theme could be discribed as transhumanism and capitalism gone wrong, I think. So it for sure has some substance to it, you just have to make an effort with paying attention. I still didn't like it, so w/e, this is all I can say ^^
Sean
I think I understand why you like Lain, after all it is disjointed and confused.

To be honest I was kinda turned off at first, exactly for this reason. What makes it interesting is the plethora of themes packed into it - philosophy, history, technology and conspiracy - really so much to think about. It changed how I view the world. Even after watching it like 5 times over the years, there always was something new to discover.

I liked Haruhi, in an entertaining way, but I can barely remember it. It's episodes were all mixed up, right?

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#17 [url]

Nov 24 15 7:25 AM

Merle wrote:
Oh well, transcending would be more of an intended spiritual thing, right? Yeah, what I meant is more of a sunconscious thing coming from thoughtless use of technology...

I find "spiritual" a lacking term. Transcending is transcending, question is - what and it can be many things.

I think, our today's task to merge cyberspace and real life to complement both with best parts of other...

Your mind is software. Program it.

Your body is a shell. Change it.
Death is a disease. Cure it.
Extinction is approaching. Fight it!

© "Eclipse Phase" by Posthuman Studios

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#18 [url]

Nov 24 15 7:59 AM

"Transcend" is often used in a spiritual context, so it has that kind of ring to it, if you ask me. Of course, the words basic meaning stays the same...

The question is who decides on what's worth merging and what's not. To be honest I think the current transhumanistic school of thought, the movement, is an incredibly dangerous one; I mean who are the people behind it? Want Google to decide for you, people like Raymond Kurzweil defining what a worthy human being is? What are those peoples intentions? I'm sure they are not for the better of humanity, but for the interests of a miniscule but powerful elite. Also.. Wanting to become immortal and godlike in a way.. That's just hybris - bound to fail. At least I hope so.

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#19 [url]

Nov 24 15 9:17 AM

It's the market decides, which makes all the calls, not merchants. Well, at least, not all of them. And customer do have power if he can properly wield it. I think, we commonwealth of frail, ignorant, cruel, treacherous, scared, bigoted, selfindulgent, dutable, curious, merciful, honorable, brave,  tolerant, selfless humans, both monsters and heroes should make the decisions. 

There is no one transhuman school of thought. There is millions and they exist from the first "Why?" ever questioned. There is transhuman discource and you're the part of it. I you use a computer you are already a transhuman, whether you want it or not. And your voice counts. It is not a transhumanistic school of thought, that are dangerous, that's passiveness and obliviousness is deangerous. You can't stop technology - you can only adapt to it, if history taught us anything. You have to apply ethics to use of technology and update ethics after use technology. When you've overstepped the bound of possible there is no going back.

That so called elite has as much power, as ski rider on a verge sleeping avalanche. It's not, that they don't have any influence, but only have if they can make us into mindless kettle or passive observers, who'll just let the world burn. It is our duty to be that braindead kettle. 

Well. It is bound to fail. Next attempt. And the one after it. Until there will be some measure of success. No technology is infallible. No deity ever created by a humanity was perfect. We follow our dreams of ideal, which we neither know nor understand. 

And now I ask you, do you think it is okay, that we have to spend more time at our desktop or handheld devices, constantly switching from one world to another? It is okay for you to watch into shining board for long hours, while the world outside is passing by? Do you like having a really great thought in a middle of street and needing to stand for good several minutes like an idiot to type in into the clumsy phone's keyboard? Or maybe you like browsing important info, while you're talking to your loved ones, because you can't remember it?

You have your will, imagination and wisdom. Then use it to make world better place. I can guarantee, it won't be world's Kurzweils and Googles who'll stand in your way you first. 

P.S. I am ready duscuss virtually anything, aside from powerful malevolent invisible elites none of us two ever saw, nor will. Please, indulge me on this.
Isolation breeds worst kind of distrust...

“There is no justice in the laws of nature, no term for fairness in the equations of motion. The Universe is neither evil, nor good, it simply does not care. The stars don't care, or the Sun, or the sky. 

But they don't have to! WE care! There IS light in the world, and it is US!” 

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#20 [url]

Nov 24 15 5:37 PM

 

 
Sean
I think I understand why you like Lain, after all it is disjointed and confused.

To be honest I was kinda turned off at first, exactly for this reason. What makes it interesting is the plethora of themes packed into it - philosophy, history, technology and conspiracy - really so much to think about. It changed how I view the world. Even after watching it like 5 times over the years, there always was something new to discover.

I liked Haruhi, in an entertaining way, but I can barely remember it. It's episodes were all mixed up, right?
 

I was mainly talking to Lainhart, about the confusion and disjointed part. Yeah, it was orginally broadcast out of order. The oringinal broadcast order ends in the middle of the broadcast, and the other one ends at like episode 10.

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