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Jul 22 16 5:32 AM

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A good friend over at the Facebook Girlfag/Guydyke Group drew my attention to this archive of girlfag life stories and thoughts:

I Am a Gay Man Trapped In a Womans Body


Here is one of the comments, just to give you an example (signed vampyperson):
Ok so, im only 16. But i always knew something was different about me. Growing up, i always dressed like a boy until around 7th grade, then in 8th grade i just changed and started being way more girly. I cut my hair different, got my first serious boyfriend, start wearing dresses and actually caring about how i look. Now, as im about to start 11th grade, i finally think ive realized what i am. A gay guy, trapped in a girls body. Or, i wouldnt really say trapped. Because i dont hate my body. I dont want a penis. But this past summer ive started getting really involved with the LGBT community and all my LGBT friends say i care about gay rights more than they do. I always asked myself, why is that? My best best best friend is a gay man, though im not attracted to him i have been attracted to some of the guys hes dated. As of right now I look completely like a girl, a very feminine girl, but id like to change that. The only thing is i dont know how people at my school would react and it would be a huge change in my life that im not even sure would make me happier. I guess im just confused, but i know im not a regular girl.


By the way, do sign up for the GF/GD facebook group" if you can!
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#1 [url]

Jul 22 16 7:49 AM

There are obviously a lot of ways of being, and I think its understood we don't in this group criticise how anyone wants to be, and I stick by that - but this story confuses me.. Its possible to support gay rights even if one is not gay - Its possible to have gay friends if one isn't gay. Its possible to be attracted to gay people of the opposite gender even if one is straight (though obviously obe will be out of luck). I've known straight women who are in appearance quite butch.. good for them...

To me crosssdreaming is about desiring the body of the non-birth gender. When I cross dream I desire breasts and a vagina and having no penis. I'm not being prescriptive on myself as to how I live my life - I'd probably still work in IT or teach, the two professions I veer between.  I wouldn't suddely want to be a hairdresser (insert other trad female occupations in here). This person says they don't want a penis. OK, thats how they feel. so what is being said; they want to take on male 'roles' - that cool, roles shouldn't be so defined. Prefers wearing male clothes? Cool by me. I half feel I'm arguing myself into a corner here, and I'm actually trying not to be perscriptive at all, but the question, genuinely open question is, in what sense does this person want to be a man?

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#2 [url]

Jul 22 16 9:24 PM

Hi Pip,

You raise excellent points and of course I can't answer for her. But I felt a connection to what she said. I'm a lesbian woman trapped in a man's body. That said, I don't so much want a woman's body as much as the freedom and experience of being a woman. Although I cross dress from time to time in privacy and I enjoy a peace I can't otherwise achieve, I am not saying that I'd be satisfied if it was "publicly acceptable" for me to wear a dress and so forth to the mall. It just wouldn't be the same. I would not have grown up and experienced the totality of being a girl.

I'm afraid I'm rambling here. I just see a parallel between me and the 16 year old, as well as her natural questioning as a young woman.

My 2c,

Emma

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#3 [url]

Jul 23 16 4:56 AM

The girlfag/guydyke concept is not the same as the crossdreamer one, but they are overlapping. I have had a lot of discussions with people from the girlfag community over this, and they seem to agree with me, in the sense that for some girlfags the fantasies represents a deepfelt desire to be a gay male with a male body having  a sexual relationship with other men.

Still: While MTF crossdreamers normally focus more on the dream of having a female body and being female, many FTM girlfags will focus more on the desire to take on the male role in a gay male relationship. They do not necessarily dream of having a male body.  They focus more on the sexual dynamics between two men, than on the biological sex of the bodies involved.

In spite of this, I believe that most of them belong to the crossdreamer family. I have read some girlfag fiction (yaoi, slash etc.). These stories and comics do not focus on the transformation from female to male. The "female" reader identifies with one of the two men, without the need for a transformation plot. In this way the focus is more on the role playing, like in top/bottom, dominant/submissive, masculine/feminine.

To make this even more complicated: Many of them report that their attraction to gay men is not so much a matter of finding men who love men sexually attractive, but rather that they broadcast some kind of feminine vibes.

Some girlfags identify with the "bottom", others with the "top", but it is certainly true that many find room to explore a more agressive and dominant sexuality in this way.

The more I study this, the clearer it becomes to me that the following dimensions cannot be clearly separated when it comes to the whole "body/mind complex":

Biological sex
Experienced gender
Masculinity/feminity
Sexual submission/dominance

They are separate dimensions, but they interact in complex and upredictable ways in different people.

I also suspect that the reason crossdreaming is expressed differently among many of those assigned female at birth is caused by a different social and cultural context.

Anyway, if you have not read it already, I have written about girlfags over at my blog.

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#4 [url]

Aug 23 16 9:37 PM

jackmolay wrote:
The girlfag/guydyke concept is not the same as the crossdreamer one, but they are overlapping. I have had a lot of discussions with people from the girlfag community over this, and they seem to agree with me, in the sense that for some girlfags the fantasies represents a deepfelt desire to be a gay male with a male body having  a sexual relationship with other men.
 

I still don't really get it. I'm a MtF crossdreamer who is attracted to women, has fantasies about being a woman with another woman, etc. Does that make me a guydyke? Or is there something specific to wanting to be gay/lesbian in particular? Are those two things even different?

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#5 [url]

Aug 24 16 1:05 AM

I still don't really get it. I'm a MtF crossdreamer who is attracted to women, has fantasies about being a woman with another woman, etc. Does that make me a guydyke? Or is there something specific to wanting to be gay/lesbian in particular? Are those two things even different?


You might say that the gf/gd approach and the crossdreamer approaches are looking at the same phenomenon from two different angles.

The girlfag/guydyke approach is focused on sexual orientation: Wanting to be or take the role of a gay man or a lesbian woman. So yes, guydykes want to be a lesbian woman, not any woman.

The crossdreamer approach is more focused on the the body and some sense of identity. In your dreams you want to appear as or be a woman. There may be an erotic dimension to it, for sure, but whether you want to have sex with men or women is not the point.

This is why I say that the two concepts are overlapping, but not identical. The fact that they are not identical, though, has forced me to rethink my understanding more than one time. I am still working on that one.

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#6 [url]

Aug 24 16 3:38 AM

Well I am physically male, and what sexuality I have is an attraction to women, but relationships never come my way; maybe bad luck, maybe my lowish sex drive and crossdreaming mean I just don't go looking for them.... But as a crossdreamer I 'want to be' a heterosexual woman.... Sex, and being desired as a sexual being in a way I don't feel I am as a male, are part but by no means the end of it.....

I feel we are getting a long way from the title of this thread, sorry

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#7 [url]

Aug 24 16 7:58 PM

The girlfag/guydyke approach is focused on sexual orientation: Wanting to be or take the role of a gay man or a lesbian woman. So yes, guydykes want to be a lesbian woman, not any woman.

The crossdreamer approach is more focused on the the body and some sense of identity. In your dreams you want to appear as or be a woman. There may be an erotic dimension to it, for sure, but whether you want to have sex with men or women is not the point.

Ummmmm.....I kind of felt I should add something to this thread even if I plan to devote the rest of my life to the priestly level of the MGTOW philosophy, as in no involvment with females, not even FTMs (or some kinds of MTFs for that matter).  There may be an overlap between gender identity and sexual orientation......for some ....unless there isn't........much.....for others.  To me, the sense of identity is the whole essence of my conciousness.  Love and marriage matter little.  It's why I can identity with monks and priests.  The body, in my case, that of a female, doesn't even matter.  Identifying with masculinity just wakes me up in the morning.  I find myself much calmer when I identify as a dude.  This calming effect is very powerful.  There's no sexual arousal connected to it.  I can still imagine a happy life married to a man though, but that is not the essence of my empowerment (and devilish behavior).  

I have found though, that lately, whenever I crossdream as a priestly knight, the calmness that I feel makes me speak softer and move more gracefully.  So, it's like this: when I think I'm a dude, I FEEL empowered to do anything, but I BEHAVE softly like an archetypical female.  Thus, feeling is one thing.  Behaving is another.  But it is through invoking the man in me first that caused these things to happen.  I have little arousal (so, androphilia exist NOT as neither is gynephilia), but I can still IMAGINE being happily married to a man.  My gesturing like a woman when I'm crossdreaming as a man is very interesting.  I think this is the "compensation" part of the brain working to balance things out.  Thinking about how overproduction of one hormone during fetal development can cause compensation of the "opposite sex" hormone is probably what I am feeling psychologically.  It's the subconsciousness balancing out the opposite thoughts of the consciousness.  So, it's like I'm this soft spoken female who walks like a soldier and smirks like a gay man, but without doing any of the nasty business of gay men.  

Last Edited By: lal2828 Aug 24 16 8:12 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#8 [url]

Aug 25 16 11:33 PM

I have found though, that lately, whenever I crossdream as a priestly knight, the calmness that I feel makes me speak softer and move more gracefully.  So, it's like this: when I think I'm a dude, I FEEL empowered to do anything, but I BEHAVE softly like an archetypical female.


Many MTF crossdreamers and crossdressers also report on the calm they feel when being allowed some kind of sign of the feminine. As you point out, it could be internal dreaming of being some kind. For crossdressers it may be some kind of hidden female garment (underwear). So even if they present as men, they nevertheless feel their own femininity affirmed in a way.

Fascinating, isn't it, this complex mix of dreams and apperance, symbols and emotions?

 I think this is the "compensation" part of the brain working to balance things out.  


I suspect that this is also caused by social conditioning. You are punished for expressing masculinity, so your subconscious has some kind of subroutine that "corrects" this kind of behavior.

I am sure this is what happens in my own case.  I am not appearing "feminine" as regards mannerisms and looks. Tjhat does not stop that side of me frome seeping through, though. Many has told me that my behavior is feminine in the sense of being a patient, non-agressive, peace maker,

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#9 [url]

Apr 25 17 7:26 AM

I am gay man who would love to meet a girlfag.  

I do not think that I could date a girlfag, but I would love to have friends who are girlfags.

When I dated women, I dreamed about dating a masculine woman.

 

Last Edited By: harry2793 Apr 25 17 7:29 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#10 [url]

Jun 7 17 2:01 PM

I don't really relate to the girlfag thing as such, I can see how many people do and I grew up reading slash fiction (and then to a lesser extent some original homoerotic fiction and yaoi stuff later on in my teen years via fanfiction of anime/Japanese video games,) but I've never felt a particularly strong connection to gay male culture, or seen myself as a gay man as such. I do see part of my identity as male, but not necessarily gay if that makes sense.. I don't label my sexuality, and on occasion I can even be attracted to women so there's that I suppose. I'm attracted to men regardless of their sexuality though, and usually physically feminine men (with various personalities.) It doesn't matter if they're straight though as long as I can picture the dynamic I want.

But part of it is also the sex acts themselves, preferring certain ways of having sex and having certain body parts, not just the relationship roles. This is the part that causes me quite a lot of issues/frustration, since I lack those body parts. But for various reasons I've decided not to transition. It would be nice to be able to shapeshift, that'd be the ideal.

For me I don't seem to have a clear preference with roles and such. I quite like the idea of being in a more stereotypically female role but with a male body, but also often in a more stereotypical male role with a male body, and also sometimes less often as either, with a female body. I think this is why I like guys who exhibit a weird range of both masculine and feminine traits because my brain can kind of daydream all over the place.

I like the idea sometimes of being submissive sexually to someone who is male but very feminine in certain ways kind of like a male femme-dom (best way I could describe it really, dominant feminine-ish energy but feminine presentation, in androgynous male body,) I can find that quite attractive. But I also quite like the idea of being protective over a guy, sexually dominant etc, and taking on a more stereotypically masculine role with a kind of shy/vulnerable guy (that sounds kind of weird maybe but yeah... Something I fantasise about) And sometimes I like the idea of being sexually dominant with a guy who is more male typical in personality (but not too masculine, think fairly average guy I suppose.) but still they often look a little androgynous (slim, long hair usually.) The thing that remains consistent most of the time is a preference for physical androgyny in partners, even moreso than personality traits. No idea why that is. I mean I've had exceptions over the years but maybe 80% of guys I'm attracted to are physically feminine in at least a couple of traits. Some of them very feminine, and others a bit less so, but they'll have say long hair or something. Hmm.. It's difficult to write out really, my mind is a bit of a mess lol.

Of course I can see why many ftm crossdreamers would be attracted to and identify with gay male culture and gay men, because it's rare to find a heterosexual man that doesn't try to shun the things they're looking for/attracted to. I've noticed a lot seem to be into relatively feminine guys for whatever reason like me, and guys who aren't afraid to express that. I've come across guys with these traits who are heterosexual though famous examples, yet even they often express some kind of ambiguity in their sexuality. Maybe they experimented a lot, but decided they were into women, or they are openly bisexual, or they don't label their sexuality. And then of course heterosexual men aren't typically into ftm sexuality either - the stuff that turns on ftm crossdreamers generally disgusts most straight men - so there's another piece of the puzzle.

^ Think that might be where my interest in erotic stories that involved sexuality conversion/mind control etc over the last few years came from.. A lot of them involve gender play elements as well which I really like. First stumbled on one when I was 18, and read a bunch by the same author. I felt a lot of cognitive dissonance over that and many parts of it were offputting, because I'm against that kind of thing (sexuality conversion,) yet I couldn't deny it was kind of hot for some reason. I kept going back to them, weirdly fixated. Years later I found more of the same kind of thing and I also realised these stories are actually mostly written for and by men who are into this kind of thing (which made me feel a little better,) but I read them anyway sometimes, because I find some of their ideas hot. The stuff I come up with in my mind (when I can,) is always better, but it's inspirational I guess =P

Last Edited By: Loki Jun 7 17 2:24 PM. Edited 6 times.

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