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Jun 6 17 12:50 PM

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In the ever-shifting sands of political correctness, the terms androgyny and androgynous seem to have come recently under fire.  These words have special significance for me, because I first 'outed' by adnitting to them proudly. "Georgene says 'Ian is androgynous'" my supervisor said one day, seeking to stir up trouble between me and a female fellow worker.  "She's right!" I replied suddenly, and, surprised, he retired with a grimace.  

I am also criticized lately for advocating herbal hormones.  There is a certain dogmatism which insists that they have no effect on breast growth.  However, I know they do, because I have taken them, on and off, for some years now, and when I was out of them for a while my breasts got smaller.  I point out to these people that not every Trans needs to go all the way MtF.  Some of us are content to be (horrors!  here it comes!) androgynous.  Thus, Norway interdicting the excellent herb pueraria mirifica irritated me, but i wasn't defeated.  I just switched to Natureday, with some adjuncts in the way of creams.  There are some sites, such as Susan's Place, where you are not even allowed to mention herbal hormones.  Some people need to hold tight to a theory to feel safe.
 
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#1 [url]

Jun 6 17 1:34 PM

IanBrianna, It's sad, but never the less true, that there are a lot of judgmental people in the trans world, but then again, why should trans people be any different than anybody else? I actually think they should be, because all trans people should understand what it means to be on the fringe, and therefore they should have some sympathy for others facing similar situations. But I suspect a lot of trans internalize the transphobia they encounter, and then flip that onto the rest of the community. This might be especially true for those trans who are exposed to very socially conservative environments. They embrace the notion that there is a very specific way to be trans, which of course approximates exactly their own narrative. They see themselves, and others like them, as being noble victims. But other trans that don't fit neatly into that bucket are viewed as lesser trans to be scorned.

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Jun 6 17 3:22 PM

April wrote:
IanBrianna, It's sad, but never the less true, that there are a lot of judgmental people in the trans world, but then again, why should trans people be any different than anybody else? I actually think they should be, because all trans people should understand what it means to be on the fringe, and therefore they should have some sympathy for others facing similar situations. But I suspect a lot of trans internalize the transphobia they encounter, and then flip that onto the rest of the community. This might be especially true for those trans who are exposed to very socially conservative environments. They embrace the notion that there is a very specific way to be trans, which of course approximates exactly their own narrative. They see themselves, and others like them, as being noble victims. But other trans that don't fit neatly into that bucket are viewed as lesser trans to be scorned.

I think some transsexuals after transition believe that they are now cis-women. And who I'm I to say they're not? Once transformed they just take on the beliefs of all cis-gendered people. Also, I think some of them are afraid that non-transitioners will somehow make it easier for cis-genders to recognize them as trans, thereby outing them.

Lindsay


"The thing is you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear, dig?" the Pointed Man

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Jun 7 17 12:08 PM

Lindsey, I have no doubt that is the case. In fact, I would even take that idea a little bit further. There is a trans subculture that thinks of themselves as utterly cis, except for being born in the wrong body. For them, the transition period is truly a transitory state that must end, followed by a new life of being completely embedded in the cis world, and being unrecognizable as anything other than being cis. This way of thinking seems to be stronger among younger trans. I have nothing against people who think this way, per say, but this does setup a ridiculously high bar, that only a tiny minority in the trans community can get over. Furthermore, for the few of those who can make it, this state of cis-ness can often only be accomplished by living a rather low key life. None of the more famous trans role models would qualify, because they are living out their trans-ness rather publicly. The other thing that tends to happen with a lot these "cis trans" is that they tend to judge, not only themselves, but all trans by these standards. I suspect a lot of that is driven by tranphobia, and that many of these cis trans live in highly repressed areas. And that gets me to the second point you made. I do believe that a lot of these trans deeply fear repercussions from other trans being what they view as too public. I have actually been on the receiving end of such comments from trans trying very hard to blend in.

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Jun 14 17 9:22 AM

The issue may be not so much "passing" as cis-gender, but rather that there needs to be recognition of gender diversity in the socio-cultural sphere. Jamison Green considers this issue in "Look! No, Don't! The Visibility Dilemma for Transsexual Men." -- 1996 in Transgender Studies Reader.

Fundamentally we can conform to the hetero-sexist dyad, or we can be who we are -- without surgery, without hormones, without "transition" -- which is arguably a "masque" from one closet to another. One closet or the other isn't going to work for me. I'm out of the closet, "gender queer" and the binary dyad is terrified!
 

Allison Wunderland's Transcend Dance
http://allisontranscend.blogspot.com/

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Jun 14 17 10:49 AM

Hi IanBrianna, As someone who also lives with my GD I do understand how you feel. I wish I could be satisfied with androgyny, but I resigned myself to the inevitable: that I will always want to transition and that the time I spend socially as Bobbi is very precious to me. I do not understand this tendency to pick words that we have used in our community and all of a sudden claim they are disparaging - but there you go. This is what happens when we secede control of the moment to the more radical elements - they take it in ridiculous directions.
As for herbal remedies - I am not a believer in such things, but if they do not do any harm I can't see why you shouldn't be allowed to take them. I will say that natural remedy companies do make wildly unsubstantiated claims about the effectiveness of their products and we do rely on regulatory agencies to remove those products that can be hazardous - such as Herbalife.

http://herbalife-sideeffects.blogspot.ca/2012/03/blog-post_19.html

Their weight-loss products have been removed in the past due to issues like causing high blood pressure and even heart disease.

If you are taking a product that does actually affect your hormones then I hope you are also seeing a doctor who can advise you - for your own sake.

*hugs* Bobbi

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