#21 [url]

May 12 17 11:35 AM

Well I don't know.....it's just 27 sheep, domestic ones. I don't buy into the brain difference in male or female humans, as in lady brain etc. I'm heterosexual Lost. Maybe they are all an animal type of bisexual, whatever the "animal" description of that would be.

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#24 [url]

May 12 17 4:01 PM

Try this approach: visit the Museum of Sex in New York City. For years I told myself I was too good and "righteous" to visit such a museum because I associated sex and museum with a place that exhibited pornography. (Afterall, I tell myself that I am just a simple, ordinary straight cis female who wants nothing to do with gender issues.) Then, after making some online friends who had "alternative" lifestyles, I ventured out to give the museum a try a few years ago to understand more about human sexuality. When I got to the museum, I was amazed by how LITTLE there was on porn and alternative lifestyles. There was an entire floor, the third floor, that gave information through words, pictures, and sculptures about animal sexual behavior! The museum doesn't distinguish between the sexual behaviors of animals and humans because humans ARE animals. (I learned a lot, even if I stay a traditionalist.)

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#26 [url]

May 13 17 5:03 AM

If you don't believe in 'lady brain', what do you think makes the typical female sheep want to make herself available to the typical male sheep? 
Do you think it works via abstract reasoning? A sex neutral brain just happens to find itself in a body with certain parts, and eventually just by accident works out what to do with those parts to produce a positive emotional response, and then eventually figures out that doing something with those parts with a member of the same species with different parts makes a baby sheep? That abstract learning process then has to happen over and over again in every generation to perpetuate the species. Do older sheep actually need to teach younger sheep how to have sex?

Do you not think that maybe nature has a few biochemical shortcuts built in? Like maybe there's this thing called the mammalian reproductive system, which produces a periodic hormone cycle, which activates certain brain circuits particularly strongly at the height of fertility when the egg is about to be released from the follicle, which causes a particularly strong chemical/emotional response in the presence of certain pheromones emitted by the opposite sex, which causes the female sheep to involuntarily display its rear end and allow itself to be penetrated? 
Isn't that 'lady brain'?

Does 'lady brain' exist for sheep but not exist for humans?
I mean we've already done experiments on mice and things, give male mice a bunch of the wrong hormones soon after birth and a little while later they seem to want to be mounted as though they were female mice.

Ok, so maybe lady brain also exists for humans, but since supposedly humans are specially created complex abstract reasoning beings placed here on earth as a test by god to see if we will choose to praise 'him' and follow all his laws, well then if I feel like I want to present myself to a man for penetration, with body parts I have not got, I can reason that it might not be such a good idea to do so, for various reasons, including the abstract concept of 'sin', and I can go and do something else instead, and if I get really desperate I can just concoct a fictitious scenario where it happens and just think about it, or find someone else's concocted abstract scenario which I also happen to find sufficiently stimulating, and release the ever-building tension that way. 

Perhaps private masturbation is also considered a sin, or maybe just private masturbation if you also happen to be thinking of the 'wrong' abstract scenario is sinful, I don't know, I'm not really one to believe in God, the supernatural, or an afterlife, so I don't think 'sin' really exists like that either, but since plenty of other people still do, I might not want to parade my apparent sexual deviance in front of their face. 

But if it's not a sin just to have 'lady brain', and only a sin to act on it sexually, or maybe also only a sin to wear the wrong clothes in public, is it still a sin to seek any potentially available medical treatment to make you feel a bit better so that you don't feel like you want to blow your brains out because after 20 years of waiting you still can't do what you want to do?
Does my body absorbing 5mg a week of a fairly simple and well understood biological molecule, also go against your interpretation of Gods will, because it certainly makes me feel a bit happier, and it isn't currently illegal.

Last Edited By: Xora May 13 17 8:21 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#28 [url]

May 13 17 7:21 AM

A nice chart about "what is sin". I didn't post picture here because it's too big.

It's amazing, how many rules from Leviticus or other books of Old Testament are abandoned now, but not a rule about homosexuality. Picking only some rules and ignoring other? "What I like is not a sin, but what I dislike, it's a sin".? Very questionable attitude.

I have a big suspiction, that we have now a different understanding of homosexuality that it was two thousand years ago. In the story of Sodom we can find that homosexuality is about lust, it's about homosexual rape. This rape part may be the main reason of destruction of Sodom, which sounds pretty logical even now.

But modern view understanding of homosexuality is different, it's more about love and bonding, not just satisfying lust. There is only one major difference between hetero- and homosexuality -- sex of the partner. All other aspects are very similar. They are not exact copy, we can't expect that gay family would be exactly the same as stright family.

In my opinion, it makes passages about "satisfying unnatural lust" not applicable to most of the gays and lesbians. It's not about lust in the first place, and it is natural.


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#29 [url]

May 13 17 7:30 AM

Well I was mostly addressing this one. 

Well I don't know.....it's just 27 sheep, domestic ones. I don't buy into the brain difference in male or female humans, as in lady brain etc. I'm heterosexual Lost. Maybe they are all an animal type of bisexual, whatever the "animal" description of that would be.

Do you think we humans have any pre-wired innate behaviours or do we just learn everything through social mimicry?

Do animals have innate pre-wired emotions and responses or do they learn things through social mimicry?

So people who claim to feel same-sex attraction, or claim to want to behave like the opposite sex, don't actually feel what they claim to feel, or do feel what they claim to feel but only feel it because though they started out as a blank slate they have just been very poorly socially conditioned because they spent too much time with their mother and not enough time with their father or something?

You say 'I'm heterosexual', presumably that means that when you see a woman you find sufficiently attractive you mentally go 'phwoar yeah, I really want to bang her', and then involuntarily get an erection. Isn't that a pre-wired emotional response? Is that something you had to learn and practice or just something you discovered about yourself when you hit puberty? Isn't that a consequence of having a male brain?

My experience as a teenager was more like I see a pretty girl and think, 'I wish I had nice big boobs like that, it's not fair, why does no one ever pay that kind of attention to me?' Then I'd go home and try on one of my mums bras or something and then get an erection. So where did that thought and emotional response of mine come from?

Since then well I haven't actually had sex because it's hard for me to obtain, wouldn't work out very well physically, and comes with all kind of potentially difficult consequences, so it's simpler if I just don't get involved with anyone.
But I think that I'd like to have sex at least once a year, maybe more often if I found the right person, and I'd like to find the right person who wouldn't mind too much if I just wanted to be a bottom and not a top, and dammit I still want a nice rack, because to some small part of my brain it feels like I should have one by now, and seeing myself that way when I look in the mirror also feels really good, and I'm getting tired of just waiting for so much fun stuff to happen that never ever actually happens. 

Last Edited By: Xora May 13 17 8:17 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#31 [url]

May 13 17 1:37 PM

I think maybe we choose our sexual orientation, do gay people think they are born gay, do heterosexual people? Opportunity, curiosity? I dont actually care as long as people can be happy as themselves. As for animals they can't tell us. And no, I don't look at women and judge whether they are " sufficiently attractive" and think "phwoar I really want to bang her" I've no idea why you had those emotions as a teenager, only you can answer that. What does baffle me though is that even after years of studying and documenting transsexualism, listening to hundreds of MTF's Blanchard is rejected by many but 27 sheep seem to be utterly convincing, not a word spoken by any of them either. It's a mad world 🙂

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#32 [url]

May 13 17 2:47 PM

You think people choose their sexuality?? Really? All the evidence is against you but then you don't give a flying F*** for evidence do you?

For example, given all the persecution gay people have had through the ages, and even now in countries like Russia and Iran, why do you think people 'choose' to be gay there?

I know we are supposed to live in fact free word where all opinions are equally valid, but that's C**P - Evidence still counts for something... btw I'm not gay myself

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#33 [url]

May 13 17 3:01 PM

Well it depends on what you mean by rejecting Blanchard. 

Obviously he documented the experiences and reactions of people like me, and discovered that yes, we get sexually stimulated by the thought or image of ourselves as being or becoming the opposite sex from what would be expected by examining our anatomy. So far so true I guess, so thanks for proving that we actually exist. 

He then layered on top of that a pseudo-Freudian theory of causation and outcomes, and categorised us perverted males which has made it endlessly more difficult for us to get treatment and made it really hard for anyone to take us seriously, and artificially divided the MTF 'trans community' along fairly shaky lines of us vs them depending on how and when our biological variance has presented itself to our concious minds. 

It's like the Bruno Bettelheim idea of autism being caused by 'refrigerator mothers', it put a hell of a lot of unnecessary social stigma on people who were already struggling, accusing them of being really bad parents and actually causing the total emotional withdrawal of their infant children. 
So in a lot of ways these people have just been sticking their nose into something that they really didn't properly understand, and making themselves famous by writing books and publishing papers, and making people like me suffer more for years rather than actually helping us.
Blanchard seems to have been determined to only see us though the lens of homophobia, not as rather vulnerable people perhaps needing a little medical help to live the life of their choice.
In that respect I'm a lot more fond of Harry Benjamin than I am of Blanchard because he actually seems to have cared more about his patients that his career. 


Last Edited By: Xora May 13 17 3:54 PM. Edited 2 times.

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#34 [url]

May 13 17 4:03 PM

PipX wrote:
You think people choose their sexuality?? Really? All the evidence is against you but then you don't give a flying F*** for evidence do you?

For example, given all the persecution gay people have had through the ages, and even now in countries like Russia and Iran, why do you think people 'choose' to be gay there?

I know we are supposed to live in fact free word where all opinions are equally valid, but that's C**P - Evidence still counts for something... btw I'm not gay myself

I think it's reasonable to assume some people might choose to be homosexual. Heterosexuals maybe don't think too much about things. Choosing may come from life experience or exploration, who knows? Pipx It wouldn't matter to me if you were gay, straight, trans, bi, etc.

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#39 [url]

May 14 17 11:31 AM

I believe some of the best evidence for a biological basis for sexual behavior comes from research done on the effects of chemical pollutants (specifically phytoestrogens) on wildlife. Scientists have long known that boy frogs display different behaviors than girl frogs, but boy frogs exposed in their tadpole state to phytoestrogens, which mimic natural sex hormones, start acting more like girl frogs. There are numerous studies showing similar results across a wide range of species

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#40 [url]

May 15 17 2:37 AM

Being something is never a 'sin', only behaving a certain way can be a 'sin' surely? 
Can you sin by what you think of, or just what you do?
Well I guess the 'Thou shalt not covet.. ' commandment refers to a sin of pure thought,
but it's a long way from 'Thou shalt not kill / steal / commit adultery', those being sins of behaviour etc.
I suppose thoughts that are purely in your head that you don't verbalise in front of other people are one thing, but you can't get away with just saying things that you don't actually do, and then claiming it's all fine because you didn't actually do them.
But then again, no one sane thinks its actually a 'sin' to shoot people and steal stuff inside Grand Theft Auto, so long as you didn't pirate your copy of Grand Theft Auto, and a lot of people don't really care about that so much, as long as you didn't commit Grand Theft Auto in real life you are pretty safe from actual prosecution.

Thou shalt not whack one off while thinking of how nice it would be if thou didn't have the parts to whack one off like that?

Thou shalt not seek to understand thy biological makeup in much more fine-grained detail?

Thou shalt not behave so much like animals with all their various variations of behaviour which are often clearly mal-adaptive to their actual bodies? http://transsexual.org/anec1.html

For me the biggest sticking point for a long time was probably 'Honour thy father and thy mother..' which kind of stands in the way of doing a lot of what you want if you even think they might potentially disapprove of it, or it might bring indirect social 'dishonour' on them, which covers a hell of a lot of bases, in all areas of your life, particularly if what you really want is to have your most sensitive bits turned inside out, which a lot of parents are probably strongly against.
But I think that's a bit ridiculous too, since society generates so so many pointless rules that it's practically impossible to remember them all, do you also dishonour your parents if you talk with your mouth full, ever put your elbows on the table, don't wash you hair for a month, wear white after labor day, etc. etc. even if they never find out about it, because you are not living up to all the various social 'values' that they once tried to impart to you?  You should always do what they say because of the dreaded, "I didn't bring you up to behave like that.. " kind of thing, which probably covers a hell of a lot of so-called face-saving but in actual fact rather dysfunctional behaviours.

What if you happen to think that your parents are rather stuffy and 'fake' social climbers like Hyacinth Bucket, they are clearly overcompensating for something themselves, and you personally can't actually afford to maintain that kind of a lifestyle without making someone else suffer for it, even if you wanted to? Their tastes may seem rather superficial to you, but does that mean that yours have to be too?

Take this one.. 
Do you not think that plenty of parents would actually be pleased that their son was considered attractive enough to be able to date a lingerie model? Isn't that actually a sign that you've done a really good job, and not a potential source of family dishonour?
What if she's considered (one of) the most beautiful woman in the world? Is it still a dishonour?
There is a big gap between being a lingerie model and being a porn star you know, and even that doesn't break 'Thou shalt not kill or steal' and may or may not break 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' depending on your circumstances. Chances are if you get to date a famous super model then a lot of other people will be involuntarily breaking 'Thou shalt not covet' whenever they see you arm-in-arm, which might actually be something you enjoy.

Eventually my dad died, so unless you still have to honour what you imagine your Father's wishes were long after they are not around, I think I'm fairly safe on that one, and well, I just got so fed up that I explained everything in fairly great detail to my mum and kinda said, 'This is how it's going to be, I will never be getting anyone pregnant, and I will always want to be the one that gets fucked rather than the one that does the fucking, and I really want to do this thing, even if it takes till I'm 40', and so now it's done.
So I'm not sure if that's honouring her wishes exactly, but it's not like I just let her catch me in bed with someone, I was pretty careful for a long time, and only after a great deal of thought, and having waited for nearly 20 years post-puberty, I like to think I tried to break it to her fairly gently. ;-)

erhaps the needs of the community as a whole outway the needs of the one to maintain their sense of 'status', which when you think of it, is really just an idea in their head, and not an actual measurable 'thing', unless you count it by the contents of their bank account or perhaps their social reputation if they are really aiming for posthumous canonization.

Since lots of people seem to keep on arguing whether even Mother Teresa was actually as 'good' in all areas of her life as her public profile would suggest, it looks like you can't actually always win that one either.


Last Edited By: Xora May 15 17 3:56 AM. Edited 5 times.

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