#42 [url]

May 10 17 1:30 AM

It seems to me that Lisa believes that rubbercripple is a crossdreamer. He has clearly stated that he is not, but she does not know this, so now she is reminded of a very small group of crossdreamers who used to support Blanchard some ten years ago.

Needless to say, they did some damage, not to the transgender community as such (there was only a handful of them and they had no clout in the community), but to other crossdreaming transgender people. Vulnerable transgender people got the ideas of their gender variation being a sexual perversion confirmed by other transgender people, which drove them back into a closet filled with shame and humiliation.

From discussion on reddit I see that there are people out there that believes that all of us are like that. That we have replaced the word "autogynephilia" with another but kept the idea that this is nothing but a paraphilia or a fetish. Needless to say, I do my best to debunk this notion, but for some transgender people this narrative helps them keep some distance to the "crossdressers" and "transvestites".

Actually, this very thread is a good example of how concepts and narratives forces some transgender people from accepting us. As long as the autogynephilia theory is used by TERFs and right wing extremists to attack us, some trans people will be tempted to use the same way of reasoning to keep "true transgender people" apart from "the fetishists." They think they can avoid the social stigma attached by reinforcing this binary. The truth is, of course, that by doing so they throw a lot of transgender people under the bus, i.e. the ones for whom sexual fantasies play an important role in their self discovery.

Lisa is not one of these separatists. She has systematically defended "the part timers", as she calls some of us. I guess that she feels betrayed by rubbercripple, who she thinks is one of us. He isn't.

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#43 [url]

May 10 17 7:20 AM

LisaM wrote, "So get onboard or get out of the way or get trampled, because our backs are to the wall and we have no tolerance left. You choose the enemy's side ..you are an enemy."

I have read most of your posts (being somewhat new tot he forum) and my first reaction to this one was 'someone hi-jacked Lisa's account!' I have read the follow ups where people are trying to interpret your words but you are the only one who can do that properly. You were obviously triggered and I get it - I have said stuff in frustration on this forum that I had to explain. Please don't leave it like this!

*open arms* Bobbi

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#44 [url]

May 10 17 7:40 AM

Jack wrote, "she is reminded of a very small group of crossdreamers who used to support Blanchard some ten years ago. "
This site is owned by one - http://www.transgression.com/ and if you look very hard you may find some of my old articles. And yep - like you said Jack - my friendship with Eugene helped drive me back into the closet for a time - although admittedly his (yes he is identifying as male now) contribution to that choice was small by comparison to some others.

Funny enough Eugene asked me to participate in his documentary project (described on the site) and I declined for basically the same reason I gave RC. It is just not healthy to dwell on this stuff (AGP) - just reject it flatly and move on.

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#45 [url]

May 10 17 8:11 AM

jackmolay wrote:
IAs long as the autogynephilia theory is used by TERFs and right wing extremists to attack us, some trans people will be tempted to use the same way of reasoning to keep "true transgender people" apart from "the fetishists." They think they can avoid the social stigma attached by reinforcing this binary. The truth is, of course, that by doing so they throw a lot of transgender people under the bus, i.e. the ones for whom sexual fantasies play an important role in their self discovery.

 

In case there might some misunderstanding of my position, I want to say as clearly as I can that I do NOT believe that crossdreaming sexual fantasies are a fetish or a perversion.  I agree that they can play an important role in our self-discovery.

I just don't think that they're the *whole* story, or the root cause, as Blanchard's theory seems to suggest.  I think we have a gender core, probably related to hormone levels during critical phases of prenatal brain development, and this means someone can be "truly transgender" without needing to transition -- or indeed, without needing to crossdream or crossdress.

So I hope this removes any misunderstanding that might have been caused by my "None of your damned business!" comments above.

The philosopher Charles Taylor once observed that we form our identity largely in response to others' attempt to define it for us.  We're constantly being categorized and labeled, as others try to make sense of and gain some control over their world.  We resist those labels and we say "No, no, you've got it wrong.  That's not who I am."  But when pressed to explain who we are instead, we're often at a loss for words.  We just know, deep in our bones, that we're something else.

Many of us eventually quit trying to convince others of their mistake.  I no longer care what TERFs, transsexual separatists or their bigoted allies think, except insofar as it impacts my freedom to live as I think best.       

Last Edited By: Kippi May 10 17 8:16 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#46 [url]

May 10 17 9:46 AM

Bobbi Dare wrote:
Jack wrote, "she is reminded of a very small group of crossdreamers who used to support Blanchard some ten years ago. "
This site is owned by one - http://www.transgression.com/ and if you look very hard you may find some of my old articles. And yep - like you said Jack - my friendship with Eugene helped drive me back into the closet for a time - although admittedly his (yes he is identifying as male now) contribution to that choice was small by comparison to some others.

Funny enough Eugene asked me to participate in his documentary project (described on the site) and I declined for basically the same reason I gave RC. It is just not healthy to dwell on this stuff (AGP) - just reject it flatly and move on.



"Transgression Film Studios is a film production company that produces and develops documentary films that delves into contemporary, and often controversial, medical topics, including sex addiction, autogynephilic addiction (e.g., transsexualism) and genital mutilation. "

Bobbi, I too had my experience with people who got in the way of me figuring out myself. It cost me more than a decade of my life. In my case, it was Anne Lawrence. This Transgression Film Studios sounds like it embraces the very heart of tranphobic talking points. Usually transphobic people like this Eugene have something driving them. Was Eugene religious or are you aware of some other personal motivation? I'm curious.
 

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#47 [url]

May 10 17 9:55 AM

Bobbi, don't you see it as an opportunity to get your side of things out there? I'm sorry to hear Lisa feels betrayed but I've tried to be as open and honest as I can in this forum.

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#50 [url]

May 11 17 10:23 AM

Hi April - Eugene has some personal motives that drive this need - not religion - he is actually very supportive of Gay/lesbian/Bi issues. He is supportive of transsexuals, but only from the Blanchard/Lawrence, model. I do not understand or support his views in this regard but I am still in contact with him.

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#51 [url]

May 11 17 12:32 PM

Hi Bobbi, I have a close friend who is a big shot in AA (Alcoholics Anonymous). He is fond of saying that "the most obnoxious people on earth are a reformed anything". They see everything through their own experience and become evangelists to the rest of world, preaching that their way is the only way. Recovering alcoholics invariably see everybody on the planet, who has ever consumed more than one drink at a time, as being addicts just like them. They also are absolutely convinced that they know what's best for others. I believe this determination to save the world by trying to get it to emulate their exact path, is a form of self validation. It's interesting to me that Eugene here implies that transsexualism is an addiction. For him, it might just be, but like a reformed anything, he is universalizing that experience and trying evangelize his path to others.

Last Edited By: April May 11 17 4:02 PM. Edited 2 times.

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#52 [url]

May 11 17 12:49 PM

I once got a stern ticking off from someone running an event when I mentioned I might go out for a drink that evening (and I did mean that in the singular) -- he was all 'Can't you just give drink up for ONE night'... I was too shocked by his vehemence to respond, or I might have said it would be my first drink of the week... Looking back now, I'm sure he was a reformed alcoholic ...

I think the tendency to think everyone will be better off if only they accept 'my truth' is widespread, from AA to gender identity to politics to a whole lot else. I'm sure April is right that self validation is part of this; as is a pig headed lack of empathy!

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