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Apr 3 17 4:31 AM

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The transgender bathroom debate has nothing to do with threats against women and children, and everything about some people’s desperate need to protect old-fashioned and sexist views of sex and gender identity. 

They mistakenly believe that if people are allowed to explore their own gender, their whole culture will collapse.

There is nothing new in this. Conservative traditionalist used (and use) the exact same tactic vis-a-vis gay and lesbian people, and not that long ago. They lost that battle. Homosexuality is no longer considered a sin or a mental illness, at least not by the majority. 

And do you know what? Men still fall in love with women, marry and have kids. The freedom of homosexuals did not threaten the freedom of bigots.

The homophobes used lies, bad science and false statistics to “prove” that gay men was a threat to children, and that they could turn young boys and girls into homosexuals just by being with them. 

These days the same kind of people use lies, bad science and false statistics to “prove” that transgender people are a threat to women and children.

 Zack Ford writes:
And this is where it becomes most obvious the way the anti-transgender activists of 2017 are relying on the exact same scare tactic that anti-gay activists used in 1978. Conservatives in California tried that year to pass Proposition 6, which would have banned gays, lesbians, and any of their allies from teaching in California’s public schools. It was called the Briggs Initiative, named for state Sen. John Briggs, who championed it. 

Briggs’ primary argument against gay teachers was his belief that gay people were more likely to be child molesters. Often, Briggs insisted that gay people could only perpetuate their existence by “recruiting” young people, the implication being that molestation was how that recruitment functioned. “Safety” was the primary argument then as it is in anti-trans campaigns now. 

Here is gay pioneer activist Harvey Milk challenging Senator Briggs back in 1978. Sounds familiar doesn’t it?



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#1 [url]

Apr 13 17 11:16 PM

So many of the transphobic arguments made are just recycled homophobic ones. The 'Trans Desistance Myth' for example, actually came from (and is still argued by the way) those that stated that 'most people grow out of homosexual impulses'..ignoring bisexual people totally of course. Even the 'Mentally Ill/It Is A Choice' arguments that we trans people get were all developed and used against gay people originally.

As the is obsession with trans women ans girls while trans men and boys are largely ignored. The homophobes focus on gay men and hardly ever mention lesbians (who they probably find as kinky).

So trans women are the 'new' gay men in that regard.

And people forget that all the transphobic sexologists (etc) all started out trying to work out how to eliminate gays. Stoller, Green, Money, Rekers and all the rest that followed.

To them (and still now) gender and sexuality are the same things. If you are 'feminine' you are male attracted, 'masculine' female attracted.
Makes you winder where all the very many masculine gay men come from, doesn't it? Or all the femme lesbians?

Never mind that both of those are incredibly narrowly defined by all those people...basically being 'masculine' to them is being a little thug who likes fighting and violent sports...while 'feminine' is wanting to be a mum and have a baby from about 4 years old. Sexist...hell yes. Homosocial...hell yes. Political ..hell yes.

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#2 [url]

Apr 14 17 1:31 AM

I accept there is a dissonance between the arguments that certain people put forward and the opposition they have just based on prejudice... but the people who are prejudiced are not the ones we are going to win over. We are trying to win over people who just don't know.... so the hardnuts will say "Trans is just about men trying to get access to female restrooms so they can abuse your daughter' - and they'll probably win a few people over... but then those people might get to know a trans person and be shown the facts that no girl has ever been abused by anyone 'posing' as a trans person... and we win them bak

I still say the best way to win this battle, even in the days of false facts, fake news, is with facts and personal introductions.. not by bigging up the zealots.

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#3 [url]

Apr 14 17 1:56 PM

PipX wrote:
I accept there is a dissonance between the arguments that certain people put forward and the opposition they have just based on prejudice... but the people who are prejudiced are not the ones we are going to win over. We are trying to win over people who just don't know.... so the hardnuts will say "Trans is just about men trying to get access to female restrooms so they can abuse your daughter' - and they'll probably win a few people over... but then those people might get to know a trans person and be shown the facts that no girl has ever been abused by anyone 'posing' as a trans person... and we win them bak

I still say the best way to win this battle, even in the days of false facts, fake news, is with facts and personal introductions.. not by bigging up the zealots.


I largely agree that the single most important step in the liberation of trans people will eventually come from cis people having more contact witth them, but we need to get to a place where that is even possible. Most of the trans people I personally know are trying to live ridiculously under the radar. Some of that is driven from external transhphobia, but a lot of trans people also equate invisibility with passing. They don't venture very far out of their comfort zone in that regard. That is something I totally get. I am fortunate to live in a large urban area with a great deal of diversity. Within that kind of an environment it is easy to find islands of tolerance, so I can afford to be pretty open, even rather agressive, but most trans don't live in such fortunate situations. With trans issues receiving increasing media exposure in the last few yearrs, there has been a huge pushback from the transphobic world. Trams people have become the new moral panic and the cutting edge of the left / right culture war. In other words, we are exactly where gay people were 30 to 40 years ago. As I look back on the history of the gay movement I see a lot of rather agressive behavior, even radicalism along the way. Some were killed in the process. But I believe a similar radicalism is needed with trans people to get us to the next level. 

Last Edited By: April Apr 14 17 3:23 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#4 [url]

Apr 14 17 2:51 PM

Some trans people want to be invisible - not because they have an internal transphobia but because they want to live the life of their target gender and not be 'out and proud'... so long as they don't criticise 'out and proud' people or make any hypocritical comments I don't see a problem with that...... each of us need to accept that if they want others to accept our own personal lifestyle, we need to accept the lifestyle of others...

Oh course I write that as a crossdreamer who doesn't have to stretch the boundaries because its a kinda of internalised thing for me, but it does lead me to be sympathetic to trans people of all types, how ever far they need to take it

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#5 [url]

Apr 15 17 12:38 AM

This is the cleft stick we face the only way to improve out acceptance in society it for people to know us. The classic example were gays and lesbians, the more that came out the greater the acceptance in society as people knew them, they were their friends, workmates, family. And the public option polls in many countries show that over time..

Familiarity wears down prejudice.

For too long trans people that transitioned were forced to become invisible by the 'gatekeepers'. And if you were one that could not do that you were not allowed HRT or surgery.

I have friends that are stealth and, given the political climate I have to disagree with them. Simply put the more out and open trans people there are the better things will get for all trans people...and especially trans kids. The more that get into activism the better things will get.
And I really don'l believe a life of hiding and being terrified of being outed is that much of a life.

I don't advertise that I am trans and though I don't think so some seem to think I am fairly passable. but if anyone asks I am happy to tell them and explain things. In my activism I am quite open about who I am. But that helps other trans people and makes my life a lot simpler, because I am not hiding anything I don't care if I get 'clocked'..
I can trade 'passing' for 'being accepted' any day.

Intersex people are going through that realisation too, long invisible they are slowly coming to the conclusion that to get accepted and get the reforms they want they have to start coming out and fighting for them. These are just the simple facts of society and politics.

Our deadly enemies are not going to go away any time soon, the religions, the conservatives and TERFs have to be fought, try hiding from them and they will just hunt your down..

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#6 [url]

Apr 15 17 10:12 AM

The history of most social movements points to a social paradox: the best path for most individuals isn't necessarily the best path for the community as as whole. There are very good reasons for many to operate well under the radar. It's the far safer path.

In the trans community, there are also many who believe that a "true trans" person is really just a cis person born in a wrong body. They seek to become embedded in the cis world and become totally indistinguishable from any cis person. This of course involves passing, but it implies a great deal more: literally losing one's past. That is impossible in small towns where everybody knows your history, but it is also highly difficult in larger population areas. It invariably involves a life that avoids drawing any unnecessary attention to one's self. The trans separatists well carry that idea even one step further by saying anybody who doesn't really seek to go stealth isn't a "true trans" but rather some sort of  gender slumming interloper.

Lisa, like yourself, I see hiding in the shadows to aovid getting outed as not terribly free, and freedom is the driving force of my life now. I have nothing against trans people who choose otherwise, but I have had trans people absolutely slam me because I am so out and rather vocal about that. They seem to think that rather public trans people cast a spotlight on the entire community that is facilitating a transphobic backlash. I actually get why they might think that, but I honestly don't think we will ever win the hearts of transphobs by hiding.

Last Edited By: April Apr 15 17 10:17 AM. Edited 1 time.

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