#21 [url]

Apr 11 17 1:20 AM

Hmmm speaking with my RL male hat on.... Yes I accept I do enjoy some privileges, and its hard to quantify these as I don't know any different.

I don't think Feminism puts me under any pressure to be the 'alpha male'. I don't think I could be if I tried.

As I have written on the boards before (sorry if I'm repeating myself) I think I may suffer from a double effect. Men, it is claimed, are more likely to exaggerate their abilities at interviews and in work review processes. Women tend to feel they need to be certain of an ability before they claim it. In this respect I should transition tomorrow to fit in! I definitely need to feel comfortable and I'm more likely t down play my skills....

So lets say I'm at skill level B - as a man I should be telling people I'm at skill level A.. so some people will take me at my word while more experienced people will make allowances for 'male claims' and think 'Oh he's a B'
But actually I'll peg myself at a B, or even a CD... the experienced people will still see a male, and some think oh he must be a C or D... and give them job to someone else 'more skilled'

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#22 [url]

Apr 11 17 11:29 AM

"I think we are mixing up two levels here. Yes, a majority of men are not able to live up to the hype of the alpha male and have to find love the hard way. But they still benefit from being classified as men. As trans men tells us: people take them more seriously, listens to them, accepts their ideas more readily, they get a higher salary and a better job more quickly.

I suspect the recent backlash against feminism in some circles is caused by the fact that educated and liberated women can now make stricter demands as to what to expect from a man, and rightly so. Those men who know that they cannot live up to the stereotypes can no longer make themselves believe that simply being a man is good enough. They mistakenly believe that they have to live up to the alpha myth and despair because of this.

The fact is that all they have to do is to be good and caring persons. That is the kind of husband material many, if not most, women look for.[/quote]



Mixing up the two levels are correct, Jack.

The FtMs might have internalized the alpha male type as the standard model of "man". It's why I think that a cognitive difference in female-bodied people would be a more accurate description of FtMs.

As to male privilege, FtMs might have been looking at white-collared jobs in one community. Again, race and economics play a role in our lives. I look at males from across the globe from all walks of life and ages. It really depends.

Last Edited By: lal2828 Apr 11 17 11:33 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#23 [url]

Apr 11 17 11:31 AM

PipX wrote, " I definitely need to feel comfortable and I'm more likely t down play my skills"

I totally get what you are saying. It is very difficult for me to overplay my skills and I know it has cost me jobs - people look at this as a lack on confidence on my part I am sure. Cause - why aren't you bragging like a jack-ass! Something is wrong with me.

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#24 [url]

Apr 15 17 3:13 AM

Bobbi Dare wrote:
Thank you for posting this Monique - at 16:55 when Nora talks about how she was emotionally unraveling due to her guilt over the gender deception I started to get all choked up. Many of the feelings she describes I can identify with from both sides because I do not really conform totally to either male or female thinking. That retreat she went to where guys were getting their internalized anger out - fuck I would have been uncomfortable there too. And I understand how it is to have to repress emotion as a guy around guy friends, growing up I had examples of what could happen to you if you were too effeminate since the gay guys at my school were constantly picked on. I learned to internalize all of that over years so it becomes easy - but Nora found it hard due to her upbringing which allowed such expression.
The social interaction with the woman in the coffee shop she was trying to pick up as Ned stood out for me as well. Women do have all of the control over that interaction and I have experienced that sort of hard rejection from women. Conversely when I am out as Bobbi, even if the guy is an obvious tranny-chaser and sort of creepy, I will not do that so harshly - unless they go too far like grabbing my ass or something. Cause I know what it's like to be on the other end of that.
But you know - talking to women while out as Bobbi is easy - I just start talking and they respond.
Loved this reply, Bobbi. We seem to have a lot of shared life experience. Growing up I always felt sorry for the gay weaklings who didn't know how to handle it, like we mostly succeeded in. I wanted to hug and kiss them tell them it was alright, but you couldn't do that or the alpha bully eyes would be on you. Yeah, repressing emotion, tell me about it! Even now, and unlike Nora, with a lifetime's experience in how to harden that dismal male shell, feeling how it grows into us, stunting us, it's a constant detail requiring attention. Almost daily as I go off to work I feel how I have to recaliber my attention to become the "man", and as I get home, I sometimes congratulate myself on how well I performed. Now they're confused; now they'll never find out who I am! And then it takes some time to come down again and feeling safe enough to slip back into Monique.

While her reaction to getting face to face with male emotional repression is a typically feminine one - "men above all need each other" (I'm not so sure about that!), she's right about one thing, the huge deficit in and men's urgent need for love, affection and tenderness. Ever since I deeply realized this, I've increasingly felt that my calling - that our job as women - once we get to another world, where everything and everyone is a lot more beautiful, where we can truly metamorph into Bobbi and Monique (not just "transition" more or less on the surface, like here) - is to provide that affection, appreciation, encouragement and emotional support to men. Not least - in my case at least - also that sweet, sweet pleasure. Hecatombs of it, and not just to one man, but A LOT of men. smiley: wink

This is what I want to become:

b677435d73f3487ba0e4643549486e74_r.jpg


Hell, the nice men don't need another man. They need a woman!

"Conversely when I am out as Bobbi, even if the guy is an obvious tranny-chaser and sort of creepy, I will not do that so harshly - unless they go too far like grabbing my ass or something. Cause I know what it's like to be on the other end of that."

Precisely. And maybe that's just the thing that in comparison to the usual lot around here could make us into extraordinary women. Potentially. A true compassion for men. Some New Age people think Earth life is kind of a school. If so, and we were put for some kind of reason, for instance to unlearn something, so we could desire to be what we were meant to be, it looks like one helluva shock treatment crash course! smiley: laugh

"We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting."

- Khalil Gibran


If I cannot be a feminine traditional woman, what's the point of being a woman?

- Me

Last Edited By: Monique Apr 15 17 4:06 AM. Edited 10 times.

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#25 [url]

Apr 15 17 5:38 AM

Monique wrote:
Unlike female privilege, there is no such thing as male privilege. The whole discourse is bunk.


There are male obligations and duties. Though no reward. Not anymore, at least. We exist only to support the successful lives of the upper 10 percent. Or is that the 1 percent? Or we mope around doing nothing.


Probably the whole notion of male privilege got started when some women realized how they habitually pandered to and gave free rides to handsome and attractive men, often to their own detriment. Simone de Beauvoir or Germaine Greer, or some such. Which is about 20 percent of the male population. And since the rest of the male population are not even visible to women, they drew the conclusion that all men enjoyed some kind of unwarranted "privilege". Because those who count do.


Not that they held the freeriders accountable. No, a princess still desires, needs and have a rightful demand to claim her tall, handsome, dark-eyed prince, who will sweep her off her feet. So let's just push that additional burden, complaint and shaming onto the back of the serfs!


I once read a wonderful interpretational twist on the story of Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs (or was that Sleeping Beauty?). Anyway, every little girl understands she will one day become the princess and every little boy respectively assumes he will grow up to be the prince. What no adult explained to the little boys was there can only be one prince in the story. From the outset, the rest of us were destined to become one of the fucking dwarfs!

 
(Seriously, you had to edit this 10 times? image

Yeah, but remember, min vän, the "fucking dwarfs!" found other "fucking dwarfs!" and lived together happily before and ever after meeting Miss White.  Think of that dismal Disney song, "Heigh ho(e), heigh ho(e), it's off to work we go....."   

The White girl and Mr. Charming were never heard from again.  

 

Last Edited By: lal2828 Apr 15 17 6:03 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#26 [url]

Apr 15 17 5:58 AM

lal2828 wrote:
Monique wrote:
Unlike female privilege, there is no such thing as male privilege. The whole discourse is bunk.


There are male obligations and duties. Though no reward. Not anymore, at least. We exist only to support the successful lives of the upper 10 percent. Or is that the 1 percent? Or we mope around doing nothing.


Probably the whole notion of male privilege got started when some women realized how they habitually pandered to and gave free rides to handsome and attractive men, often to their own detriment. Simone de Beauvoir or Germaine Greer, or some such. Which is about 20 percent of the male population. And since the rest of the male population are not even visible to women, they drew the conclusion that all men enjoyed some kind of unwarranted "privilege". Because those who count do.


Not that they held the freeriders accountable. No, a princess still desires, needs and have a rightful demand to claim her tall, handsome, dark-eyed prince, who will sweep her off her feet. So let's just push that additional burden, complaint and shaming onto the back of the serfs!


I once read a wonderful interpretational twist on the story of Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs (or was that Sleeping Beauty?). Anyway, every little girl understands she will one day become the princess and every little boy respectively assumes he will grow up to be the prince. What no adult explained to the little boys was there can only be one prince in the story. From the outset, the rest of us were destined to become one of the fucking dwarfs!

 
(Seriously, you had to edit this 10 times? image

Yeah, but remember, min vän, the "fucking dwarfs!" found other "fucking dwarfs!" and lived together happily before and ever after meeting Miss White.  Think of that dismal Disney song, "Hi ho(e), hi ho(e), it's home from work we go....."   

The White girl and Mr. Charming were never heard from again.  

 
I do a lot of tiny mistakes when I write. Then I realize I can improve this or that, or even think of something I'd like to add, like an image.

The rest didn't sound very nice, I think.

"We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting."

- Khalil Gibran


If I cannot be a feminine traditional woman, what's the point of being a woman?

- Me

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