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Mar 24 17 4:30 PM

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I started to respond to this in Sofie's ost and started to realize that I was getting way off the topic.  However I still wanted to get some reactions and follow up comments.  What do you feel when you are out en femme and how does it differ from your feelings when you express (or expressed) as male.

Sofie wrote: "I actually feel that crossdressing is superfluous unless there is someone to see me. I know others will feel differently, but crossdreaming works fine with me when I am alone. :)"

http://crossdreamlife.lefora.com/topic/535/Feelings-and-sensations-while-crossdreaming#.WNW4ERIrJE4

I have crossdressed and I used to go out en femme quite a lot.  Why did I stop?  I think because I moved away from my friends.  I am turned on when I do myself up but that pales in comparison to being out with people as Bobbi, dancing having fun and talking.  It's a very different experience.  It's exciting, its freeing, I can express myself without reservation.  When I am crossdreaming I do have that same sort of feeling as when I am out as Bobbi - I have a very good imagination but I will tell you that dreaming is not like doing.  The first time a guy held the door for me I was so surprised it took me a few seconds to process what just took place.  This was no polite - oh I'll leave the door open for that guy behind me thing - this was a full blown: sweeping bow and how are you today milady thing.  It felt amazing.

*hugs* Bobbi
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#1 [url]

Mar 24 17 5:49 PM

Hi Bobbi,

Having never gone out en femme I don't know, but I can imagine it would feel wonderful. Perhaps too good. I know it feels good to be dressed in private, at home. It's not erotic, it just feels right.

I am making plans to visit a couple of transformation services this summer. I want to find out for myself where I am on the spectrum.

Emma

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#2 [url]

Mar 25 17 5:32 AM

I've never crossdressed in public but for the last 20 years or so I've never consciously tried to look or act male. Occasionally some one will momentarily ID me as female and I get the most wonderful feeling when it occurs. It makes me wonder if it's how cis-gendered people feel all the time.

On the flip side, every time it's occurred the person who mis-ID'd me seems to feel really bad when they realize the mistake. It seems very misogynistic, but both males and females act the same way. Like they just insulted me in the worst way possible when in fact it's the best compliment they could give me.

Lindsay


"The thing is you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear, dig?" the Pointed Man

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#3 [url]

Mar 25 17 10:12 AM

Almost 3 years into transition, I have a somewhat different perspective on this, but in order to make sense of that, I need explain how I live now: I operate in 3 modes. I have my day to day mode, which is decidedly feminine but not super feminine. Still, I add touches to it that tend to grab attention. I usually wear jeans with flowing feminine tops, cowboy boots, and often western styles hats. My hair is long now, and with fair amount of makeup and feminine jewelry.It isn't exactly mainstream and does get me sort of noticed out in public. Because of my height, and voice, I don't believe I ever completely pass under any circumstances, but people more or less treat me as female, and that seems pretty normal to me now. That is how I operate about 60% of the time.

Then I have what I call my "uber girl" or "club diva" mode. That is how I spend most of my social life. It is how I look when I go to clubs or to private parties, which happens about 2 to 3 times a week. Most of the pictures I post on the web are of me this way. My style choices approximate what younger girls usually wear in the club scene, a lot of sexy and revealing clothes. For me, that means short hem lines, althought I am beginning to show of my growing cleavage. Most of my clothes come from Charlotte Russe, which is not exactly a store for women on the plus side of 30, let alone 60. I always add some touches that would make me stand out in a crowd, such as some goth makeup or accessorizing, or wear a hat of some sorts. I get a fair amount attention from a lot of people that way, and it feels absolutely amazing. I was actually pretty reserved as a male, but I absolutely own my space in my club diva mode. I am in that mode about 30% of the time.

Finally, I still use a butch mode, where I appear as male. I do this sometimes to accommodate family and old acquaintances who won't deal with me in my current feminine state. I have also never come out at work, although several people there now know about me. Fortunately, I work mostly remote, so this is not a huge issue. When going male, I put my hair in a pony tale, and avoid most of my more flamboyant fashion touches.I am trying to go for the aging male rocker look. But the impact of HRT has given me a decidedly feminine look, and many people think I am a rather effeminate gay man now,. I feel absolutely miserable when I am in this mode, which I would say is about 10% of the time. Fortunately, that is declining by the month.


"Club Diva" April - This is what I live for now

image

Last Edited By: April Mar 25 17 10:19 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#4 [url]

Mar 26 17 4:05 AM

When I look at you know, I find it harder to understand how you are able to pass as a man.

But apart from that aging male rocker mode, I do think I get what you are aiming at. You are trying to express different sides of yourself in different social settings, which is exactly what most women does.

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#5 [url]

Mar 26 17 8:14 AM

Emmasweet Wrote, "I am making plans to visit a couple of transformation services this summer. I want to find out for myself where I am on the spectrum."

I did not go right out in public my first time either Emma :) I join a social club for TG in the town where I lived and they had a space were we could meet, get dressed and hang out for a while en femme. It gets comfortable after a while and that gave me the courage to go farther - when one day I was invited to go out to a drag bar. Let me know how it goes at the transformation service.

*hugs* Bobbi

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#6 [url]

Mar 26 17 8:21 AM

Lindsay wrote, "the person who mis-ID'd me seems to feel really bad when they realize the mistake. " They are just projecting their own feelings and expectations. I think most people put a lot of effort behind their own identity expression, gender is one aspect of that, so being mis-ID can be upsetting.

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#9 [url]

Mar 26 17 8:28 PM

Bobbi Dare wrote:
Lindsay wrote, "the person who mis-ID'd me seems to feel really bad when they realize the mistake. "

They are just projecting their own feelings and expectations. I think most people put a lot of effort behind their own identity expression, gender is one aspect of that, so being mis-ID can be upsetting.

Hi Bobbi,

The point I'm trying to make is that it's considered a much greater affront to mistakenly identify a male as female than about any other thing you can misidentify someone as. And it doesn't have anything to do with the feelings of the person who misidentifies you. They seem to be only interested in making sure you're not mad at their mistake. 

In my case being misidentified has been some of the greatest moments in my life. 

Lindsay


"The thing is you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear, dig?" the Pointed Man

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#11 [url]

May 18 17 12:32 PM

Of late I've been "passing" as a dyke "butch" biker. -- per Jack Halberstam, "Female Masculinity"

The nurses in my Primary Care refer to me as "stealth lesbian." My lesbian friends seem to appreciate my deconstruction of the gender stereotypes. I'm not confused. How about yourself?

allisontranscend.blogspot.com

Allison Wunderland's Transcend Dance
http://allisontranscend.blogspot.com/

Last Edited By: AllisonWunderland May 27 17 11:03 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#13 [url]

May 18 17 7:22 PM

April, I love your Club Diva look! You look fantastic!

All, last night I went out with several girls I met in a Portland TG group en femme in public for the first time (except for several Halloween's in the past). It was fun but I hated the wig: too hot. I was told that I looked very good so maybe I'll post a photo in the next day or two and let you all be the judge.

What's really been wonderful is just hanging out at the transformation service's (Over The Rainbow, Tigard, OR) house in casual female clothing: skinny jeans with a top, comfortable skirt and top - as if that's the most common and natural thing for me to do. It feels good to just be me.

I suppose that also speaks to my question about transitioning. But as others here have said we might consider transition but need to balance that with many other things. That's part of what I'm trying to evaluate for myself.

Emma

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#14 [url]

May 19 17 1:13 PM

"Keep Portland Weird"

Emmasweet wrote:
April, I love your Club Diva look! You look fantastic!

All, last night I went out with several girls I met in a Portland TG group en femme in public for the first time (except for several Halloween's in the past). It was fun but I hated the wig: too hot. I was told that I looked very good so maybe I'll post a photo in the next day or two and let you all be the judge.

What's really been wonderful is just hanging out at the transformation service's (Over The Rainbow, Tigard, OR) house in casual female clothing: skinny jeans with a top, comfortable skirt and top - as if that's the most common and natural thing for me to do. It feels good to just be me.

I suppose that also speaks to my question about transitioning. But as others here have said we might consider transition but need to balance that with many other things. That's part of what I'm trying to evaluate for myself.

Emma

We no longer sort our clothing by "male" and "female." We have stuff that "works" and stuff that doesn't work. Some stuff works better than other stuff. There's the "balance" -- a 69 yr old hetero male, (stealth lesbian). Mostly my "transition" is about queering the binary. Not male, not female . . .  "queer" . . .

"Queering the Binaries: Transsituated Identites, Bodies, and Sexualities." -- Jason Cromwell



Lately, and this is in "weird" Portland OR (were pot is lawful) . . .  I do the "butch biker" -- butch enough that I stand to pee. LMAO

Some think I am male, some think I am female. Some think "This is Portland, and weird." 

We need to be visible as who we are, not mask our identities with gender stereotypes.

I love how this interface turns the whole dammed post into a link!

https://books.google.com/books?id=HBRR1isU-VAC&pg=PA509&lpg=PA509&dq=queering+the+binaries+jason+cromwell&source=bl&ots=4YGjDrDWv5&sig=Yr6M9kwhOxouvmm_7EH0Rf_9qWA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVk8K77vzTAhVM42MKHTGYDpsQ6AEIKjAB#v=onepage&q=queering%20the%20binaries%20jason%20cromwell&f=false



 

Allison Wunderland's Transcend Dance
http://allisontranscend.blogspot.com/

Last Edited By: AllisonWunderland May 27 17 11:05 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#15 [url]

May 22 17 2:52 PM

I like to go out en femme whenever I can. It's really liberating to be outside and fun to dress for whatever the activity. I know I am only semi-passable, but I keep away from close up situations for the most part. Usually I am shopping when I have to interact. I guess I have been lucky, reactions I mostly see are non-acknowledgement (pass?) or an awkward smile, and occasionally obvious discomfort on their part. I found a girl friend to go on walks with me, I am able to relax with the comfort of having a wing girl.

Tami

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#18 [url]

May 27 17 3:14 PM

Allison, I think your question was more directed towards Emma than me, but this is where ideology has to give way to the particular needs of an individual. We are each on our own very unique journey, and each of us requires a different path and destination. In the end, it comes down to everybody finding their own comfort zone. And for many of us who came to this point rather late in life, we also carry the additional burden of trying to accommodate some people and things from our old lives.

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#19 [url]

May 27 17 3:45 PM

OK, I'll bite.

When a cis woman dresses up in a formal gown to attend some special event, a night at the opera perhaps, is that a "masquerade" -- even if her usual attire is a tank top, frayed blue jeans and sandals?

It seems to me that the trans women in this thread were talking about what were, for them, occasions as special as the one the cis woman enjoys. The possibility that their attire wasn't "ontologically integrated" with their everyday lives doesn't somehow invalidate the experience. In fact, one might say it's the whole point.

Last Edited By: Kippi May 27 17 3:51 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#20 [url]

May 28 17 11:16 AM

Kippi wrote:
OK, I'll bite.

When a cis woman dresses up in a formal gown to attend some special event, a night at the opera perhaps, is that a "masquerade" -- even if her usual attire is a tank top, frayed blue jeans and sandals?

It seems to me that the trans women in this thread were talking about what were, for them, occasions as special as the one the cis woman enjoys. The possibility that their attire wasn't "ontologically integrated" with their everyday lives doesn't somehow invalidate the experience. In fact, one might say it's the whole point.


April -- which was gonna be my name if born cis-F. I was born in April. "Integral to personal, unique needs and identity" (I paraphrase) is fundamentally distinct from "dressing up" in a masquerade.

Kippi -- formal attire for a special event is not a masquerade when the person doing the presentation is the same person in bib-overalls and combat boots. The "masque" comes when one dons a costume in order to present as a different identity. I am able to "pass" in a limited fashion -- not in 7-11 buying a soda and burrito,  but out on the beach where I need not directly engage others. That form of "en femme" is "drag queen." Drag queen is a camp presentation and decidely not me.

My gender presentation is not a masquerade that I put on and take off. I understand how this works. I just wonder if anyone else in this forum understands?

 

Allison Wunderland's Transcend Dance
http://allisontranscend.blogspot.com/

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